CBO: Top 40% paid 106% of income taxes...

[jpx7]

what % of personal income should wealthy be taxed at? Just give me a number.

The upper-most tax-bracket? Let's go historical: 70%.

[The Chosen One]

The public thinks so because the majority of them are not talking about their own money.

Everyone was all upset about the Bush tax cuts, but yet, when they were set to expire, the middle class up roared that they were about to get a tax increase. Surprise surprise, people want to keep their own money, and they want the government to take from others. How noble.

You know what I want. I want EVERYONE to pay a zero percent personal income tax. It's not necessary to run a sensible government. But no, we have to subsidize, invade, insure, and take over everything - and yes, that needs money. But I look at our economy as the government has gotten more involved and it has done nothing but float thanks to a huge flux of cash from the Fed.

You'd be upset too if you felt you were getting shafted by the rich.

Notice how this wasn't a huge deal when Gingrich and the GOP helped raise taxes with Clinton that created the budget surplus.

It was Tea Party Mania and fear that made everyone up in arms about letting the Bush Tax Cuts expire.

The GOP's playbook for that, was to actually protect the rich's tax cuts, and use the middle class as the face for their argument. It sickens me they used middle class and poor as the shield for the rich friends they were protecting.

[zitothebrave]

Honestly I'm fine with lowering taxes. If you close basically every single deduction. For sure the charitable one is a baffling. Also switch capital gains to a progressive system. Insane that someone making 100 bucks on the market and someone making 100 mill on the market get taxed at the same rate

[sturg33]

You'd be upset too if you felt you were getting shafted by the rich.

Notice how this wasn't a huge deal when Gingrich and the GOP helped raise taxes with Clinton that created the budget surplus.

It was Tea Party Mania and fear that made everyone up in arms about letting the Bush Tax Cuts expire.

The GOP's playbook for that, was to actually protect the rich's tax cuts, and use the middle class as the face for their argument. It sickens me they used middle class and poor as the shield for the rich friends they were protecting.

LOL I was upset because I didn't want my taxes raised

[sturg33]

The upper-most tax-bracket? Let's go historical: 70%.

Well thanks for the number, but holy ****.

So, someone makes $400K… You want to start by taking $280K of that? That's before state, local, sales, excise, social security, medicare taxes, etc.

Would that type of a tax rate result in a tax cut for everyone else? Or is that in addition to the current revenues? Is there ever a plan to CUT spending?

[sturg33]

Do people understand why I am opposed to most taxes? It's not about making the rich richer. It's about people having a right to what they earn. Since almost all government spending is (in my opinion) unconstitutional, I don't like that they take money from me by force and use to send troops over to Iraq. Income taxes have been around for 100 years now. We didn't always have them. But now that we do, we spend spend spend spend. That's all we do. We can never cut. We can only spend. Most of the spending is waste.

Our taxes go to things like wars, war on drugs, corporate subsidies, a ridiculous defense budget, a horrifying DHS, TSA, a complete and utter failure of the DOE, and so on and so forth. It's a joke. Let the people keep what they earn, rich or poor or middle class. Shrink the size of the government to a fathomable level.

I'll say it again, because people keep ignoring it… If we spent what we did just 7 years ago, during two massive wars, the income tax could be 0% on EVERYONE, and our deficit would be the same (likely much better due to better economy).

[acesfull86]

[Metaphysicist]

I would be interested in seeing that chart in actual dollars paid... Do you think you'd be able to scale it correctly and still fit on the page?

That would not be a useful thing to look at. "People who make more money pay more taxes" is not a shocking piece of information. That would obviously be true even with a flat tax. It is the rate that is important if you are concerned about "fairness," as you claim.

[Metaphysicist]

Not when using % is horribly skewed when looking at entire tax contributions.

What does this mean? How is the concept of a percentage "skewed"?

We've already established that they pay a bigger % on income...

We didn't establish that. The chart I posted shows that total taxes on the 1% are actually regressive when compared to income.

[Metaphysicist]

Goldy, Meta, yeezus, 57, jpx, others...

what % of personal income should wealthy be taxed at? Just give me a number.

I couldn't possibly give you a specific number, as I am not an economist. But it should be noticeably progressive in terms of total tax burden. So to pull something out of thin air, take that 2011 total effective tax chart and draw a line using the slope of the first 4 columns and that's where we should put the other columns. So:

1st quintile: 17%
2nd quintile: 21%
3rd quintile: 25%
4th quintile: 29%
80-90%: 33%
90-95%: 37%
95-99%: 41%
99-100%: 45%

The top marginal rate and capital gains taxes would definitely have to be higher to make that happen.

[Metaphysicist]

Also, how am I changing the subject? The subject is *literally* how much taxes the wealthiest people pay.

You changed the subject because we were trying to get you to recognize how much they currently pay. Instead of admitting that point, you spun off and started asking questions that no one here is really qualified to answer about how much they should pay.

It's a pretty common, and obnoxious, debating tactic.

[Metaphysicist]

We all know the free loaders don't get taxed at all.

We've been over this before. People who don't pay personal federal income tax still pay payroll, sales, and state income taxes. Their tax burden is hardly "nothing."

[The Chosen One]

Must be hard for Meta to have to constantly go back and forth in multiple threads with sturg and zito.

I think a pay raise is in order to adjust for inflation. I'm thinking bumping you up to actual federal minimum wage now.

[Metaphysicist]

Since almost all government spending is (in my opinion) unconstitutional,

This is why nobody takes you seriously. Your opinion on what is constitutional does not matter in the slightest. You should not use it as part of your argument.

If we spent what we did just 7 years ago, during two massive wars, the income tax could be 0% on EVERYONE, and our deficit would be the same (likely much better due to better economy).

This could be true, but I'd like for you to show me the math on that claim. You aren't very reliable on these matters.

[Metaphysicist]

Must be hard for Meta to have to constantly go back and forth in multiple threads with sturg and zito.

I think a pay raise is in order to adjust for inflation. I'm thinking bumping you up to actual federal minimum wage now.

I do it for the kids.

And those sweet, sweet chop country groupies.

[goldfly]

[kendiz]

What would you describe it as, a reward?

Do you send more money to the government than they force you to pay?

Do you understand that most of the tax money goes to defense, doctors and hospitals, and the social safety net AND is dropped right back into an economy run by the rich? Poor people have no money, and when they get it, they spend it. Middle class people earn money, they might save a bit, but according to most reports are one months pay away from being in deep trouble. So they too spend most of their money on things that are costing more and more every year, while their pay is stagnant. The only folks getting rich are the wealthy, and their incomes are rising every year. So I'm not sure why you are so sad for them. They run the entire show. Let's take food stamps for an example. Food stamps are paid with SNAP cards that come from banks who get paid fees to issue them. They are given to poor people so they can eat during their lunch breaks at Walmart...if they get lunch breaks. Okay, but they still spend them there, because the worker's can't make a living wage for their families and need all the cheap unhealthy food they can get. So....Walmart gets tax breaks when they build a store, they drive out Mom and Pop places, they get other tax breaks for years to come, they hire workers at a non-living wage, which they can deduct from their taxes, they have tons of other tax loopholes, AND the SNAP money goes right to their coffers in food purchases while they buy most of their goods manufactured in other countries. The military? Okay..we take crappy care of our soldiers, but defense contractors and their money can't even be audited. Hmmmmm... Are you worried about doctors and hospitals that are now turning into mega corporations? I don't think you need to worry about those folks. My husband works for plenty of doctors who whine about the cost of his service, but have luxury cars in their garages, vacation plans in Europe, vacation homes in Florida.....and lots of other toys. They don't spread their money around very much....they all shop at Costco. LOL

[The Chosen One]

Do you understand that most of the tax money goes to defense, doctors and hospitals, and the social safety net AND is dropped right back into an economy run by the rich? Poor people have no money, and when they get it, they spend it. Middle class people earn money, they might save a bit, but according to most reports are one months pay away from being in deep trouble. So they too spend most of their money on things that are costing more and more every year, while their pay is stagnant. The only folks getting rich are the wealthy, and their incomes are rising every year. So I'm not sure why you are so sad for them. They run the entire show. Let's take food stamps for an example. Food stamps are paid with SNAP cards that come from banks who get paid fees to issue them. They are given to poor people so they can eat during their lunch breaks at Walmart...if they get lunch breaks. Okay, but they still spend them there, because the worker's can't make a living wage for their families and need all the cheap unhealthy food they can get. So....Walmart gets tax breaks when they build a store, they drive out Mom and Pop places, they get other tax breaks for years to come, they hire workers at a non-living wage, which they can deduct from their taxes, they have tons of other tax loopholes, AND the SNAP money goes right to their coffers in food purchases while they buy most of their goods manufactured in other countries. The military? Okay..we take crappy care of our soldiers, but defense contractors and their money can't even be audited. Hmmmmm... Are you worried about doctors and hospitals that are now turning into mega corporations? I don't think you need to worry about those folks. My husband works for plenty of doctors who whine about the cost of his service, but have luxury cars in their garages, vacation plans in Europe, vacation homes in Florida.....and lots of other toys. They don't spread their money around very much....they all shop at Costco. LOL

Need to see more posts from you.

Bigger the Liberal Elite Army we have the better.

[Julio3000]

Well thanks for the number, but holy ****.

So, someone makes $400K… You want to start by taking $280K of that? That's before state, local, sales, excise, social security, medicare taxes, etc.

Would that type of a tax rate result in a tax cut for everyone else? Or is that in addition to the current revenues? Is there ever a plan to CUT spending?

For someone who obsesses about taxes, certainly you know that nobody pays their highest marginal rate on all of their income. If the top rate were 70%, effective at $400K for a single filer, this person would pay 70% on taxable income above $400K.

[Julio3000]

We've been over this before. People who don't pay personal federal income tax still pay payroll, sales, and state income taxes. Their tax burden is hardly "nothing."

Also, a not-inconsiderable number of "freeloaders" are retirees or others who don't have income that is subject to federal income tax.