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Thread: Official 2017 Trade Deadilne Thread

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by thewupk View Post
    If I were the Braves I would aggressively shop a Garcia/JJ/Phillips package and pay their remaining salaries this year. That group has produced 3 WAR so far this year and I would sell that group as producing 3 more WAR the rest of the season. That would be a surplus value of around ~30 million and with the contenders premium should net a FV 55 player.
    Willie Calhoun?

    Make it Calhoun and Will Smith and I'd jerk the Dodgers' arm off if I were Coppy. Unfortunately we know the Dodgers aren't likely to go there again.
    Has there EVER been a statement and question a certain someone should absolutely never have made and asked publicly more than...

    Kinda pathetic to see yourself as a message board knight in shining armor. How impotent does someone have to be in real life to resort to playing hero on a message board?

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    Keep in mind , Soroka is a 50 FV guy if I remember right for now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Preacher View Post
    I'm saying its possible, and it happens quite often at the deadline when teams overpay. You're taking the stance that it won't happen. You would have said the same thing about our package of Harrell and Alvarez.
    Um no. A 40 FV for the package of Harrell/Alvarez is entirely within the realm of expectations.

    Alvarez was a much better asset than folks around here realize apparently. He was more valuable than Harrell.

    The Braves would do well to get the equivalent of Alvarez in return for Garcia at the deadline.
    Last edited by Enscheff; 06-16-2017 at 02:51 PM.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by clvclv View Post
    Willie Calhoun?

    Make it Calhoun and Will Smith and I'd jerk the Dodgers' arm off if I were Coppy. Unfortunately we know the Dodgers aren't likely to go there again.
    Calhoun would be a decent pick-up. Some defensive questions, but the guy can hit.

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  6. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enscheff View Post
    Um no. A 40 FV for the package of Harrell/Alvarez is entirely within the realm of expectations.

    Alvarez was a much better asset than folks around here realize apparently. He was more valuable than Harrell.

    The Braves would do well to get the equivalent of Alvarez in return for Garcia at the deadline.
    Except the Braves didn't get a 40 FV prospect for that package, they got a 45-50 FV prospect.

    At the time of the trade Longerhans had TD as a 45 FV guy and he's currently listed as a 50 FV guy.

    Yes Alvarez was a better asset than Harrel, no he is not much better than people around here realize, and the Braves will get a better piece than Dario Alvarez if they trade Garcia.

    Dario Alvarez career numbers - 5.48 ERA, 5.18 WHIP, -.04 WAR. That's the guy you don't think people around here 'fully appreciate'??

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    I don't even want to get into this tit-for-tat type of stuff; its pointless and I don't think most of the board enjoys reading it.

    My point has never been that Garcia is going to land a top-100 type player, but I think he can land a guy with tools that has upside or an exciting player that has fallen out of favor. Maybe a guy like Derian Cruz in another system, some really young player who has some holes but upside. Or a guy like TD, who has legitimate tools but has fallen out of favor, those are the types I would target and I think Garcia could land one of them.

    Cruz is a 40 FV right now and TD was 45 FV when traded and is a 50 FV now according to FGs.

    If you can find a way to package pieces together to land a better piece that works as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Enscheff View Post
    Um no. A 40 FV for the package of Harrell/Alvarez is entirely within the realm of expectations.

    Alvarez was a much better asset than folks around here realize apparently. He was more valuable than Harrell.

    The Braves would do well to get the equivalent of Alvarez in return for Garcia at the deadline.
    Alvarez has pitched a total 43 MLB innings in his whole career with terrible surface stats and terrible peripherals. When he got to Texas, he was shortly demoted to AAA because of poor performance. So that's the guy who was really valuable to the Rangers?

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBravos View Post
    Keep in mind , Soroka is a 50 FV guy if I remember right for now.
    he won't be when they re-rank him.

    Again I'd rather not get too caught up in 50 FV or 45 FV; that's really subjective and changes quickly depending on which site you go to and which prospect guru you talk to. Especially for players that are younger.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Preacher View Post
    Except the Braves didn't get a 40 FV prospect for that package, they got a 45-50 FV prospect.

    At the time of the trade Longerhans had TD as a 45 FV guy and he's currently listed as a 50 FV guy.

    Yes Alvarez was a better asset than Harrel, no he is not much better than people around here realize, and the Braves will get a better piece than Dario Alvarez if they trade Garcia.

    Dario Alvarez career numbers - 5.48 ERA, 5.18 WHIP, -.04 WAR. That's the guy you don't think people around here 'fully appreciate'??
    At the time of the trade (7/27/16) FG didn't have Longenhagen's FV on anyone (Braves list posted 2/21/17). So I have no idea what you're taking about.

    Further, TD is currently a FV 45 guy on FG. So again, I have no idea what you're talking about.

    And yes, that Dario Alvarez. The BP LHer that had 16 K/9 with the Braves, and is nearly at 10 per with the Rangers. The one with 5 years of control when he was traded.

    But hey, keep thinking the Braves are going to get a haul for Garcia. Who am I to dash the hopes of a pozzy-Barve?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Preacher View Post
    Except the Braves didn't get a 40 FV prospect for that package, they got a 45-50 FV prospect.

    At the time of the trade Longerhans had TD as a 45 FV guy and he's currently listed as a 50 FV guy.

    Yes Alvarez was a better asset than Harrel, no he is not much better than people around here realize, and the Braves will get a better piece than Dario Alvarez if they trade Garcia.

    Dario Alvarez career numbers - 5.48 ERA, 5.18 WHIP, -.04 WAR. That's the guy you don't think people around here 'fully appreciate'??
    Well that can't be right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zbhargrove View Post
    Alvarez has pitched a total 43 MLB innings in his whole career with terrible surface stats and terrible peripherals. When he got to Texas, he was shortly demoted to AAA because of poor performance. So that's the guy who was really valuable to the Rangers?
    OK geniuses, let's hear your potential returns for Garcia. Let's say from the Cubs and/or Astros.

    After the deadline we will, once again, look back and see who was right.

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    Harrell/Alvarez were not that valuable at all. Signed and claimed off the trash heap. What made them valuable is the fact a GM could cover two needs in one trade. To even compare those two guys to someone like Phillips or Garcia is laughable. JJ, Garcia, Phillips and Adams have NEVER been reclamation type players...ever.

    Saying we when we acquired TD is not a normal return is one thing...trying to compare these players is not.
    Last edited by TheBravos; 06-16-2017 at 03:23 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Enscheff View Post
    At the time of the trade (7/27/16) FG didn't have Longenhagen's FV on anyone (Braves list posted 2/21/17). So I have no idea what you're taking about.

    Further, TD is currently a FV 45 guy on FG. So again, I have no idea what you're talking about.

    And yes, that Dario Alvarez. The BP LHer that had 16 K/9 with the Braves, and is nearly at 10 per with the Rangers. The one with 5 years of control when he was traded.

    But hey, keep thinking the Braves are going to get a haul for Garcia. Who am I to dash the hopes of a pozzy-Barve?
    http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/insta...vis-demeritte/

    Here's the breakdown on TD from Longerhans when he was traded, within the article he breaks down his tools and gives him a 45 FV. Maybe it didn't update to the site?

    I have never said they'll get a haul for him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mqt View Post
    Well that can't be right.
    hahahah, 5.18 FIP!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Enscheff View Post
    OK geniuses, let's hear your potential returns for Garcia. Let's say from the Cubs and/or Astros.

    After the deadline we will, once again, look back and see who was right.
    I haven't said anything about Garcia. I don't know what someone may give for him. I'm just responding to your post about how valuable Dario freaking Alvarez is and how hilarious that view is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Preacher View Post
    he won't be when they re-rank him.

    Again I'd rather not get too caught up in 50 FV or 45 FV; that's really subjective and changes quickly depending on which site you go to and which prospect guru you talk to. Especially for players that are younger.
    Exactly. You can get a 40 FV guy that can be a much higher rated player in the future. That's the point.

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    Dario and Harrell were great for us.. but it was such a small sample size that no competent GM would ever over pay if they paid attention to the advanced stats that define who they really are.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zbhargrove View Post
    I haven't said anything about Garcia. I don't know what someone may give for him. I'm just responding to your post about how valuable Dario freaking Alvarez is and how hilarious that view is.
    Yeah, he was so valuable...we claimed him off waivers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bravesfanMatt View Post
    Dario and Harrell were great for us.. but it was such a small sample size that no competent GM would ever over pay if they paid attention to the advanced stats that define who they really are.
    Yet someone did....which is the point to this whole discussion. Not that it is normal, but that it can and will happen at the deadline at times.

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    Again, stop side stepping the question.

    What do you geniuses think the return for Garcia is going to be this trade deadline? If I'm wrong, tell me what's right. We will look back after the deadline and point out, once again, that you have no idea what you're talking about.

    You are all so quick to nitpick whatever I say, so step up and make your own evaluations.

    I'll start...

    Garcia has a surplus value in the $5M range. I could see that getting a 40 FV lottery ticket pitcher with control/injury concerns. Someone like Duane Underwood from the Cubs, a low mid/end FV 40 guy with some upside.

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