Nice try, but there's not an ISO-certified mechanic in the United States that is working for the minimum wage.Originally Posted by Hawk
Nice try, but there's not an ISO-certified mechanic in the United States that is working for the minimum wage.
No offense, but who the heck mentioned anything about an ISO-certified mechanic?
In my original post I said simply 'mechanic' and all of a sudden you are ramping it up to an individual possessive of a rather pricey certification.
Let's try, for example, auto mechanics.
Last edited by Hawk; 08-31-2013 at 05:44 PM.
You said you don't believe in "absolute free market capitalism" which implies that you believe in quasi free market capitalism. Am I correct on that? What's the difference between that and someone who believes in "selective free market capitalism"? I mean... I agree with your view as I myself am a quasi free market capitalist, but your complaint seems a bit hypocritical here.
thank you weso1!
The words coercive and free are like vinegar and oil. I mean these people aren't necessarily getting the union they choose. Temo painted a pretty picture of all these people coming together and singing kumbaya. But in reality it's more like they have to join this union and they're not really sure what they're joining. That's what unions have become. Unions are kind of a business on there own now.
thank you weso1!
Look at the service portion of the bill the next time you have work done on your car and I can assure you it will exceed the minimum wage. My guess is even the guy at Jiffy Lube or the guy who for the windshield replacement company who comes to your doorstep makes more than the minimum wage.
As with mostly all things capitalism, if McDonalds hired more workers, that means more people would flock to McDonald's for employment, and eventually the demand for McDonald's jobs would be so high they'd have no choice but to limit it and maybe lower wages.
Then people would flock to being auto mechanics.
Forever Fredi
And why not. Labor rates for mechanics have gotten pricey. At the dealership 110+hr, and your regular shop more like 100 an hour.
Ivermectin Man
link
And now the protest hits Wal Mart. Here's a question...why protest the companies that are actually offering these jobs to unskilled/low-skilled workers and not the companies who aren't? In other words, apparently none of the rest of the companies in this country think these workers' skills are worth $15+ an hour, otherwise they would work for them instead of Wal Mart/McDonald's/etc. So why not protest against them too? It's the market that is saying these workers' skills are worth "x" per hour, not just Wal Mart.
These industries aren't here to give all of their employees a "living wage." Simple as that. You go there for 6 months or a year or so, prove to an employer that you're responsible, hard working, etc, and use that experience to move up the chain somewhere else. Get legislators to raise the minimum wage, then these low paying jobs become more scarce, now there is less opportunity for low-skilled workers to gain the experience to make themselves more marketable to future employers. Now what? If these jobs from big box stores and fast foot outlets shrivel up, where are the displaced workers going to end up? Are accounting firms, marketing agencies, tech companies, etc going to open their doors and give them well paying jobs? Don't think so. Then we'll get new protests about how we need to increase welfare spending and unemployment insurance because the economy isn't producing enough jobs to give these workers a living wage. To go along with the protests that American companies are sending jobs overseas (which they are doing to offset their increased labor costs brought on by those very protesters).
Last edited by acesfull86; 09-08-2013 at 10:09 AM.
Problem is that I don't know of an employer who values anyone's time at McDonalds or Walmart as valuable experience for an adult.
I don't think they should be paid more personalyl but it's good for them they're standing up for their rights. Unfortunately they'll be undercut by foreign workers so it won't matter.
Stockholm, more densely populated than NYC - sturg
It depends on where these former fast food and walmart employees are applying to. If it's another ****ty retail (well that's redundant) job, then I'm sure their experience will be considered valuable.
A professional job isn't going to value it, though. I'm going back to school to learn web design, do you think I would put something like McDonald's or Walmart on my resume?
Mitch Williams really said that? !!!
Everyone's situation is going to be unique, but I think it's better to show you had a job than a gap in employment. If I were reviewing applications and one guy worked a year at McDonald's and the other guy didn't do anything, I'd lean with the one who worked (all things being equal).
I agree with this. Not doing anything at all will hurt your chances at employment, but I gotta be honest, doing volunteer work is probably better for your resume than McDonald's. Of course, back to reality, we all need money!
Here's an interesting article by Andrew Kilman, whose analysis (though I think he misreads, or miscomprehends the context of, the excellent Graeber article he cites) supports [MENTION=266]Hawk[/MENTION]'s position that increases in mandated minimum-wage can be unhelpful or unprofitable for the economy-at-large in a nation, but whose ultimate point actually argues for an anti-capital/anti-capitalism posture (to which I am very sympathetic):
The basic flaw in the thinking of Kalecki, Graeber, and the zombie social democrats now, and of the Mitterrand government three decades ago, is political determinism. They think that the capitalists control capitalism––not the other way around––so that the system can become something it’s not once different people with different priorities assume control of it.
I on the other hand think that historical experience and a bit of reflection show that the system has a “logic” of its own, so that what must be replaced is the system itself, not just the current personifications of it. Technological possibilities notwithstanding, there isn’t going to be much progress toward a post-work society, or indeed a lot of other good stuff, until we grapple seriously with the fact that capitalism operates as it does because of its autonomous logic, not because of the specific priorities of those who happen to be running the system at any particular moment. If we don’t deal with this problem head-on, the inspiring post-work vision will simply degenerate into a slogan used by wannabe personifications of capitalism to win support for their efforts to replace the current personifications.
Last edited by jpx7; 09-14-2013 at 02:14 PM.
"For all his tattooings he was on the whole a clean, comely looking cannibal."
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