as many winning seasons that Coppy hadOriginally Posted by Carp
as many winning seasons that Coppy had
Hart/Coppy had plenty of faults too. Acquiring talented young players didn't seem to be one of those faults.
Actually it is a question that requires fairly careful analysis.
Did Hartcoppy do well considering:
1) the amount of major league talent they traded away (controlling for value, years of control etc)
2) the number of high draft choices
3) the expenditures on international signings
when you consider resources expended (draft picks, major league talent traded, the international budget) I'm not so sure they did so well
"I am a victim, I will tell you. I am a victim."
"I am your retribution."
Any competent sports GM could have done as well or better at converting present value to future value. They didn't do anything special when they sold off the MLB parts. Building the best farm system when you were the only team at the time stripping itself of all MLB value is hardly a notable feat.
While we can complain that they targeting too much pitching, it's a little silly to complain about the specific prospects they got in return (and I'm aware I do it frequently) since we don't know exactly what was available at the time.
What we can criticize, and many of us did at the time, was their insistence on using up some of their assets' trade value in acquiring "now" components during the sell off. That was very clearly a mistake, and many people noted it while it was happening.
Last edited by Enscheff; 07-12-2018 at 05:12 PM.
It should also be noted how they obtained the young talent. I seriously doubt the only rules bent were the ones they got caught for. Nothing they did will ever out weight what they did to get in trouble. NOTHING.
Coppy
Again, we've gone over the draft choices. Even after the 1st round, Hartcoppy and co. consistently identified quality talent.
The returns on trades are speculative, but I won't quibble with the assertion they didn't get great value in some of those trades.
Which GM signed the Cuban guy that no one here was even sure existed for a year or two? That be my vote for the worse of the two GMs.
Hart/Coppy traded Simba for Newcomb and Dansby basically.
That will always be a horrible move in my eyes.
Forever Fredi
How do their post-first round picks stack up against Simmons, Wood and Gattis.
"I am a victim, I will tell you. I am a victim."
"I am your retribution."
Dian Toscano? That was Hart.
Too early to tell IMO on the drafts but I don't think the Hartcoppy drafts are going to stack up to Simmons/Wood/Gattis. I like the chances of seeing 3 players (starting pitchers) emerge from those drafts but the only guy I know is safe if he can get on the mound and stay on the mound with his makeup is Soroka. Even if his velo gain wasn't real, I'm pretty sure he's a safe #3 type starter.
Aggression with prospects is fine, but being stupid is not. There should be a way to find a happy medium between a Pirates like idea of being overly cautious with prospects and going stupidly fast with prospects.
It’s so weird to see people so fervently declare for one side or the other of a Frank Wren discussion. He’s the GM equivalent of a 2 WAR player.
Meanwhile back to Ozzie...
I think it’s pretty clear at this point that he’s established himself as the player with most trade value on the team. More so than Acuna, imo.
When FG releases their trade value rankings next week, I expect Albies to rank very highly.
5 years of control over a 4+ win player is around $150M+ in surplus value. That has to be Top 20(?) in all MLB.
Too early to tell obviously, but there's enough of them doing well enough that there's a decent chance at least 1 or 2 of them will end up as good as Wood or Gattis. Sadly, no one will ever be as good as Simba in my eyes. He and Kimbrell were truly great white buffalos.
Albies > Acuna
where have I heard that before
"I am a victim, I will tell you. I am a victim."
"I am your retribution."
Wasn't that guy part of the international fraud that got everyone banned. Coppy.
I don't think Hart had a whole lot to do with anything.
Still the 3rd worst GM the Braves have had since 2007.
They stack up pretty well with the 2013 and 2014 class so far. Those were pretty brutal. I don’t think we even had a player from those drafts crack the top 100.
They signed him in January 2015. I'm pretty sure Coppy didn't have much power over anything at that point.
jpx7 (07-12-2018)
And he could be a good deal better than that too if he develops plate discipline. Further bonus - more walks should lead to more stolen bases.
Great player. Lucky to have him
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