Page 91 of 579 FirstFirst ... 41818990919293101141191 ... LastLast
Results 1,801 to 1,820 of 11579

Thread: 2018 Offseason And Targets

  1. #1801
    It's OVER 5,000! zbhargrove's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Bismarck, ND
    Posts
    11,135
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    766
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    2,672
    Thanked in
    1,967 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by CrazyTrain View Post
    Maybe you're holding on to his pedigree, but I see a dude who walks too many guys and is already 27 without any real success to date.
    And maybe you're projecting our prospects into fantasies.... if they turn into Gausman, that's considered a success... I hope you realize that...

    Last 3 seasons fWAR:

    3.0
    2.5
    2.3

    you realize that is success for a pitcher in his 25,26,27 year seasons, right?

    Troll gonna troll
    Last edited by zbhargrove; 11-20-2018 at 11:06 AM.

  2. #1802
    NL Rookie of the Year dak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    2,604
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    204
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1,252
    Thanked in
    696 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by nsacpi View Post
    On a bang for the buck basis it has been my view Suzuki and McCann were our best options. Going economical at catcher (or any position for that matter where there is the opportunity to make a below market signing) improves our ability to pursue bigger upgrades elsewhere.
    McCann is a solid option for us if Maldonado and Ramos don't work out. I'd have to assume he will sign for a 1 year deal . . . and will also be inclined to wait on our decision to come back home.

    From what I can see, McCann is a slight defensive upgrade from Suzuki and not much of an offensive drop-off . . .

    Suzuki last 3 yrs vs RHP: 262 / 324 / 426
    McCann last 3 yrs vs RHP: 241 / 325 / 421

  3. #1803
    Expects Yuge Games nsacpi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    47,433
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    2,704
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    11,384
    Thanked in
    7,533 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by zbhargrove View Post
    Okay... I guess I saw your 1 and 2 options as both happening.... therefore wasn't envisioning Peralta and then something like Carrasco, etc... I read it as basically Greinke and Harper then done but I see they are separate possibilities now.
    There are other scenarios beyond the two I mentioned. Saving $ and prospects in filling catcher gives us a lot of flexibility. I'm not singling out catcher here. My point is getting good value with any signing opens things up elsewhere. It might be we can get good value with a higher rate catcher like Ramos.
    Last edited by nsacpi; 11-20-2018 at 11:16 AM.
    "I am a victim, I will tell you. I am a victim."

    "I am your retribution."

  4. #1804
    It's OVER 5,000! zbhargrove's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Bismarck, ND
    Posts
    11,135
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    766
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    2,672
    Thanked in
    1,967 Posts
    My order of preference (not even including Realmuto because I'm not overpaying):

    Ramos
    Grandal
    Gomes
    Maldonado
    McCann

    I don't want McCann... I think we're holding onto nostalgia wanting him.

  5. #1805
    It's OVER 5,000! zbhargrove's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Bismarck, ND
    Posts
    11,135
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    766
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    2,672
    Thanked in
    1,967 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by nsacpi View Post
    There are other scenarios beyond the two I mentioned. Saving $ and prospects in filling catcher gives us a lot of flexibility.
    I just think we can do much better at catcher without spending a whole lot.... Ramos would be a massive offensive upgrade and shouldn't hurt terribly cost wise

  6. #1806
    NL Rookie of the Year CrazyTrain's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Posts
    2,523
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    57
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    245
    Thanked in
    191 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by zbhargrove View Post
    And maybe you're projecting our prospects into fantasies.... if they turn into Gausman, that's considered a success... I hope you realize that...

    Last 3 seasons fWAR:

    3.0
    2.5
    2.3

    you realize that is success for a pitcher in his 25,26,27 year seasons, right?

    Troll gonna troll
    He's still hardly above average and won't get us over the top. Again, I'd rather have given the innings to other pitchers.

  7. #1807
    It's OVER 5,000! zbhargrove's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Bismarck, ND
    Posts
    11,135
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    766
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    2,672
    Thanked in
    1,967 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by CrazyTrain View Post
    He's still hardly above average and won't get us over the top. Again, I'd rather have given the innings to other pitchers.
    those pitchers who will be lucky to have anywhere near the same success you mean?

  8. #1808
    It's OVER 5,000!
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    26,261
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    34
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    10,000
    Thanked in
    6,108 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by striker42 View Post
    For some reason I get the feeling we might be one of the teams in on Sonny Gray. I don't like the probably $9+ million salary he'll get in arbitration or the fact that he's been a pretty mediocre pitcher the past couple years. But on the upside he wouldn't cost much in terms of prospects and is a guy that there's a chance of catching lightning in a bottle with. I wouldn't do it but I think the Braves have always liked Gray.
    Agreed. If the Braves are truly set on adding a "frontline starter", Gray represents a poor man's version of a such a guy and should be attainable for decent value.

    I would just hate to see Paxton go to the Yanks for good value, then Gray cast off to the Braves for market value. That would represent a poor series of moves for AA and the Braves. If they were willing to pay for Gray, they should have just paid for Paxton and gotten a true difference maker.
    Last edited by Enscheff; 11-20-2018 at 11:59 AM.

  9. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Enscheff For This Useful Post:

    50PoundHead (11-20-2018), jpx7 (11-20-2018), UNCBlue012 (11-20-2018)

  10. #1809
    It's OVER 5,000!
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    26,261
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    34
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    10,000
    Thanked in
    6,108 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by CrazyTrain View Post
    Would be super dumb. We already did a dumb thing by bringing in Gausman to a crowded rotation. Getting another "ho-hum" rotation arm would be a waste of resources.
    Another pearl of wisdom here folks!

  11. #1810
    It's OVER 5,000!
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    26,261
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    34
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    10,000
    Thanked in
    6,108 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by nsacpi View Post
    MLB pipeline has Sheffield at #31, in between Soroka (#20) and Anderson (#34)

    BA in September had Sheffield at #22, in between Soroka (#17) and Anderson (#35)

    FG is a little out of step, rating Sheffield at a FV of 50, versus 55 for Soroka and Anderson. Doesn't mean they are wrong, although my view aligns more with the MLB pipeline and BA view. Of course, the unknowable is how the M's front office rate the 3.
    I'll stick with FG's current rating over MLB Pipeline's current rating and BA's ranking from back in September.

    Regardless, Sheffield is not a "55/60" as claimed in the quote I responded to.

  12. #1811
    Expects Yuge Games nsacpi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    47,433
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    2,704
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    11,384
    Thanked in
    7,533 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Enscheff View Post
    I'll stick with FG's current rating over MLB Pipeline's current rating and BA's ranking from back in September.

    Regardless, Sheffield is not a "55/60" as claimed in the quote I responded to.
    I checked Sickels. I think he also has Sheffield in between Soroka and Anderson.

    I love FG. And I think it's great to see differences of opinion about prospects. There shouldn't be unanimity. But FG has a bias we all know about when it comes to Braves prospects.

    I agree Sheffield is not a 55/60. But he aint a 50 either. Not if Soroka and Anderson are 55s.
    "I am a victim, I will tell you. I am a victim."

    "I am your retribution."

  13. #1812
    Arbitration Eligible
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Posts
    3,381
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    68
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1,171
    Thanked in
    773 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Enscheff View Post
    Agreed. If the Braves are truly set on adding a "frontline starter", Gray represents a poor man's version of a such a guy and should be attainable for decent value.

    I would just hate to see Paxton go to the Yanks for good value, then Gray cast off to the Braves for market value. That would represent a poor series of moves for AA and the Braves. If they were willing to pay for Gray, they shouls have just paid for Paxton and gotten a true difference maker.
    This is something that I'm pretty worried about. If we go after a frontline starter, its going to be difficult to find a comparable pitcher for a price as low as the Yankees paid. A lot of people have proposed that Anthopoulos is setting his sights higher, but I think that is kind of a bad idea too (unless he gets an incredible deal). Is it more preferable to spend market value on a 5 win pitcher or to spend 75% of market value on a 4 win pitcher? In that circumstance, give me the 4 win pitcher every day of the week.

  14. #1813
    It's OVER 5,000!
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    26,261
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    34
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    10,000
    Thanked in
    6,108 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by nsacpi View Post
    I checked Sickels. I think he also has Sheffield in between Soroka and Anderson.

    I love FG. And I think it's great to see differences of opinion about prospects. There shouldn't be unanimity. But FG has a bias we all know about when it comes to Braves prospects.

    I agree Sheffield is not a 55/60. But he aint a 50 either. Not if Soroka and Anderson are 55s.
    From: https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-...-a-second-ace/

    "there’s a large group of evaluators that thinks Sheffield’s future will be in the bullpen."

    I've seen no mention anywhere that any group of evaluators think there is any real risk of Soroka or Anderson ending up in the BP. All non-FG prospect sites have a systemic flaw in the way they rank prospects based on risk, and rank them too heavily based on ultimate upside.

    FG has done the legwork to determine how much value prospects end up being worth, and rank accordingly. They are, without question, the best publicly available prospect source currently in existence.

    I'll stick with them rather than the hacks who hand out 100 FV 50s to every draft class, or think Allard is still valuable.

  15. #1814
    It's OVER 5,000!
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    26,261
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    34
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    10,000
    Thanked in
    6,108 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by BeanieAntics View Post
    This is something that I'm pretty worried about. If we go after a frontline starter, its going to be difficult to find a comparable pitcher for a price as low as the Yankees paid. A lot of people have proposed that Anthopoulos is setting his sights higher, but I think that is kind of a bad idea too (unless he gets an incredible deal). Is it more preferable to spend market value on a 5 win pitcher or to spend 75% of market value on a 4 win pitcher? In that circumstance, give me the 4 win pitcher every day of the week.
    I think it was simple: The Ms like Sheffield better than whatever MLB-ready arm AA offered (probably Fried or Newk).

    I'm guessing the same group of pitchers will be offered to the Indians, and if they bite, great. If not, that's fine. I do, however, cringe a bit at the thought of the Indians getting Fried into their system and turning him into a monster.

    We saw AA refuse to overpay for Archer, and instead pivot to a better value play with Gausman. I am confident we will see him do the same this offseason as well, and I'm hopeful the miss on Paxton shows that he doesn't see the need to add a "frontline starter" as glaring as a lot of the posters around here see it.

  16. #1815
    It's OVER 5,000! striker42's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    10,598
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    387
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    3,189
    Thanked in
    2,041 Posts
    Lets remember that Paxton is not the first time the M's have overvalued a Yankee prospect.

  17. #1816
    Expects Yuge Games nsacpi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    47,433
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    2,704
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    11,384
    Thanked in
    7,533 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Enscheff View Post
    All non-FG prospect sites have a systemic flaw in the way they rank prospects based on risk, and rank them too heavily based on ultimate upside.
    Maybe. But the question we are discussing is the relative value of three pitchers. Systemic grade inflation is not relevant when looking at how 3 players are ranked relative to each other.
    Last edited by nsacpi; 11-20-2018 at 12:27 PM.
    "I am a victim, I will tell you. I am a victim."

    "I am your retribution."

  18. #1817
    It's OVER 5,000!
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    26,261
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    34
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    10,000
    Thanked in
    6,108 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by nsacpi View Post
    Maybe. But the question we are discussing is the relative value of three players. Systemic grade inflation is not relevant when look at how 3 players are ranked.
    It is when they incorrectly value the risk of that pitcher becoming a BP arm.

  19. #1818
    It's OVER 5,000!
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    26,261
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    34
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    10,000
    Thanked in
    6,108 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by nsacpi View Post
    believe so...they had two openings in their rotation...one is now filled...Severino, Tanaka, Paxton, CC and Corbin?

    There had been some thought they would go after Corbin and Happ. Now Happ is probably a backup plan.
    Everything I had read suggested the plan for the Yanks was to:

    1. Trade for a SP
    2. Sign a FA SP
    3. Unload Sonny

    They have just executed Step 1 about as competently as possible. Expect to see Step 2 and 3 happen before 2019.

  20. #1819
    Expects Yuge Games nsacpi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    47,433
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    2,704
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    11,384
    Thanked in
    7,533 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Enscheff View Post
    I think it was simple: The Ms like Sheffield better than whatever MLB-ready arm AA offered (probably Fried or Newk).

    I'm guessing the same group of pitchers will be offered to the Indians, and if they bite, great. If not, that's fine. I do, however, cringe a bit at the thought of the Indians getting Fried into their system and turning him into a monster.

    We saw AA refuse to overpay for Archer, and instead pivot to a better value play with Gausman. I am confident we will see him do the same this offseason as well, and I'm hopeful the miss on Paxton shows that he doesn't see the need to add a "frontline starter" as glaring as a lot of the posters around here see it.
    This could be what happened. I would not have offered Soroka as part of a package for Paxton or Carrasco. Anderson maybe.
    "I am a victim, I will tell you. I am a victim."

    "I am your retribution."

  21. #1820
    It's OVER 5,000!
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    26,261
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    34
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    10,000
    Thanked in
    6,108 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by nsacpi View Post
    This could be what happened. I would not have offered Soroka as part of a package for Paxton or Carrasco. Anderson maybe.
    I wouldn't sell low on an injured Soroka for anyone right now. It would be a poor use of resources. No team is going to value him at his peak value until they see him prove himself healthy.

    I don't think Anderson is the type of MLB-ready player the Indians/Ms will be looking for. The Ms got Mallex and Sheff, and are keeping Haniger, so they are clearly shooting for a 1-2 year rebuild. The Indians are in the middle of their contention window, so they will be looking for guys like Newk and Fried...and hopefully over valuing those guys.

Similar Threads

  1. Around the League: 2017 offseason edition / 2018 Season
    By bravesfanforlife88 in forum 2023: Celebrating Our 10th Year Here
    Replies: 2322
    Last Post: 10-31-2018, 12:15 PM
  2. Around the League: 2018/2019 Offseason
    By bravesfanforlife88 in forum 2023: Celebrating Our 10th Year Here
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 09-21-2018, 05:44 PM
  3. Discussion of Braves 2018 Offseason plans
    By Horsehide Harry in forum 2023: Celebrating Our 10th Year Here
    Replies: 1144
    Last Post: 03-05-2018, 10:31 PM
  4. Potential 2016 Offseason Targets
    By clvclv in forum 2023: Celebrating Our 10th Year Here
    Replies: 166
    Last Post: 10-08-2016, 02:37 AM
  5. 2018 Offseason
    By thewupk in forum 2023: Celebrating Our 10th Year Here
    Replies: 22
    Last Post: 09-28-2016, 07:38 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •