GDT 9/26/13: Phillies (Cloyd) @ Braves (Hale) 7:10 PM

[gilesfan]

Thethe is back on the McCann decline I see.

[thethe]

Thethe is back on the McCann decline I see.

Not sure where you are getting that. I'm just making the debate that it would make more sense to give Medlen money over Mac.

You should consider debating the content of the post more as opposed to the poster my friend!

[thethe]

I agree re-signing Medlen is a better move than re-signing McCann. Brian will take more money and I think is a bigger risk. I have gone back and forth on re-signing McCann so many times this year it is crazy but we are going to need Medlen more than McCann. I feel more confident giving Medlen an extension now that he has already had TJ surgery. From what I have read the ligament is stronger in the 5 years after surgery then it goes back to normal. That gives me reason enough to consider Medlen a good health risk over a 4 year deal. 4/48 is a very fair deal. I think 4/44 is what I would predict. I think he gets 8 mill this year then 12 mill next year in arbitration. That would mean we buy out 2 years of free agency for 28 million at 4/48. I dont see that as much of a bargain for the Braves. The way to get optimal value is to give him a big salary in the 4th year then trade him before that year.

edit - Freeman is #1 priority when it comes to extensions.

100% agree on all accounts. Braves need to just throw money at Freeman until he accepts. Guy is going to be a top 10 hitter in baseball more than likely for the next 10 years.

[tululush]

The Diamondbacks absolutely lucked out when they gave Goldschmidt his contract. They signed him in March for 5 years $32 million. With a club option for 14.5 millino in '18. Wow. Talk about a steal. Goldschmidt is going to be the next best 1b in the league imo. Interesting to see what Freeman commands. Did he turn down an offer already? If so does anyone know the figures?

edit: for those that don't know this is Goldy's line this year (3 games remaining)

.303/.403, 103 r, 36 hr, 124 rbi, 15 sb

100% agree on all accounts. Braves need to just throw money at Freeman until he accepts. Guy is going to be a top 10 hitter in baseball more than likely for the next 10 years.

[thethe]

Yeah, thats the best contract in baseball right now. Maybe Chris Sale is in there as well.

I believe Freeman has one more year of MLB expereience under his belt but you have to hope that we can sign him for something like 8 years 120 million.

[zitothebrave]

How is that wise? Mac will not be better than he has been this year. More than likely he will slowly deterioate. Not to mention the Braves have somewhat competant replacements for him already.

I just can't see anyway where it makes more sense to give money to a 30+ catcher as opposed to a 28+ borderline ACE pitcher.

YOu don't know that Mac will or won't be better than he was this year. He's a multiple time all-start, multiple silver slugger winning catcher. Sure he could fade away or he could keep on keeping on, you don't know. As far as Medlen goes, he may very well be a borderline ace. But he's just that, borderline. Mac is a borderline HOF catcher. Sure he could stink the next 3-4 years or he could keep playing well.

I would invest the money in Mac then package Gattis with Johnson for a long term 3B option and propsects. We have a chance to build a dynasty and keeping Mac around for a few years should solidify that more.

[thethe]

YOu don't know that Mac will or won't be better than he was this year. He's a multiple time all-start, multiple silver slugger winning catcher. Sure he could fade away or he could keep on keeping on, you don't know. As far as Medlen goes, he may very well be a borderline ace. But he's just that, borderline. Mac is a borderline HOF catcher. Sure he could stink the next 3-4 years or he could keep playing well.

I would invest the money in Mac then package Gattis with Johnson for a long term 3B option and propsects. We have a chance to build a dynasty and keeping Mac around for a few years should solidify that more.

I just don't know. We all love Mac. He is the heart and sole of the team outside of Huddy. I just don't see how it makes more sense to give a 30+ year old catcher who hasn't been a top hitting catcher for a couple years a long term deal over a guy who has pitched like a TOR starter for the last 18 months. I'm just concerned that Mac is not going to age well and that while his injuries are something of the past they could have taken a toll on his future performance as well.

The argument about Mac being a HOF catcher is just silly. Sure, he is a potential HOF catcher because of his whole career and not what he is currently doing. Medlen is CURRENTLY a borderline ace.

[tululush]

Could really go for a 3 hit, 8ip shutout of the Phils tonight.

I just don't know. We all love Mac. He is the heart and sole of the team outside of Huddy. I just don't see how it makes more sense to give a 30+ year old catcher who hasn't been a top hitting catcher for a couple years a long term deal over a guy who has pitched like a TOR starter for the last 18 months. I'm just concerned that Mac is not going to age well and that while his injuries are something of the past they could have taken a toll on his future performance as well.

The argument about Mac being a HOF catcher is just silly. Sure, he is a potential HOF catcher because of his whole career and not what he is currently doing. Medlen is CURRENTLY a borderline ace.

[thethe]

Could really go for a 3 hit, 8ip shutout of the Phils tonight.

I would guess they would pull him after 6 innings tonight regardless of how well he was pitching. Could be wrong.

[jpx7]

Edited to be less gasp-inducing.

[jpx7]

Halves? There are no halves in baseball. Only thirds.

Well, except for half-innings.

[cajunrevenge]

Good teams dont pay for what players have done, they pay for what players will do. Yes McCann has had a fantastic career and I hope he goes on to a HoF career but what he has done is irrelevant to the situation. He is a good hitting catcher no longer an elite hitting catcher. There is no reason to think he will hit better going into his 30's. Now if we could DH 2-3 times a week then his hitting might pick up because of less wear and tear on his body but we cant do that. I think its very possible he has a resurgence in his career DHing part time and moving to a better hitters park but that wouldnt happen with the Braves. I like Brian but he isnt 15 million a year better than Gattis. 15 million I think is conservative.

Add on to that letting McCann go we get a top 40 or so draft pick. Its the best move no two ways around it.

[thethe]

Good teams dont pay for what players have done, they pay for what players will do. Yes McCann has had a fantastic career and I hope he goes on to a HoF career but what he has done is irrelevant to the situation. He is a good hitting catcher no longer an elite hitting catcher. There is no reason to think he will hit better going into his 30's. Now if we could DH 2-3 times a week then his hitting might pick up because of less wear and tear on his body but we cant do that. I think its very possible he has a resurgence in his career DHing part time and moving to a better hitters park but that wouldnt happen with the Braves. I like Brian but he isnt 15 million a year better than Gattis. 15 million I think is conservative.

Add on to that letting McCann go we get a top 40 or so draft pick. Its the best move no two ways around it.

Nailed it!

[zitothebrave]

I just don't know. We all love Mac. He is the heart and sole of the team outside of Huddy. I just don't see how it makes more sense to give a 30+ year old catcher who hasn't been a top hitting catcher for a couple years a long term deal over a guy who has pitched like a TOR starter for the last 18 months. I'm just concerned that Mac is not going to age well and that while his injuries are something of the past they could have taken a toll on his future performance as well.

The argument about Mac being a HOF catcher is just silly. Sure, he is a potential HOF catcher because of his whole career and not what he is currently doing. Medlen is CURRENTLY a borderline ace.

Over the last 3 years Mac has a 110 wRC+ ignoring his bad year he's been pretty consistently around 120.

Mac's career wRC+ by season

2005 - 93
2006 - 142
2007 - 95
2008 - 135
2009 - 119
2010 - 123
2011 - 122
2012 - 87
2013 - 122

Medlen has done very well the last 2 seasons, BUT those great numbers are propped up by a hot streak last year he'll likely never replicate again. This year he has an 88 ERA- and a 95 FIP- neither are ace level.

[thethe]

Seriously Zito? You are taking away a hot streak from Melden and taking away a bad season from Mac to do this comparison?

Come on man. Its more than likely that Macs best years are behind him. If a team wants to pay hjim for what he has done then by all means let them do it. Medlen still has his best years in front of him or at least something resembling what he did this year.

[tululush]

If they do and it's +/- 1 run and he's sitting under 100 pitchs then that would be stupid. He'll have 5 days of rest after tonight before game 1. Pitching him to win the game. Taking him out early makes no sense.

I would guess they would pull him after 6 innings tonight regardless of how well he was pitching. Could be wrong.

[zitothebrave]

Seriously Zito? You are taking away a hot streak from Melden and taking away a bad season from Mac to do this comparison?

Come on man. Its more than likely that Macs best years are behind him. If a team wants to pay hjim for what he has done then by all means let them do it. Medlen still has his best years in front of him or at least something resembling what he did this year.

Mac has a long and decorated history of hitting well above average. Medlen has no history of being a 40 ERA- pitcher. He has no history over being close to that.

[thethe]

Mac has a long and decorated history of hitting well above average. Medlen has no history of being a 40 ERA- pitcher. He has no history over being close to that.

New expectations are built in each year. You can't just look at someones history and predict what they are going to do in the future. Thats is a foolish game to play. Thats the type of game that gets you into a 4 year extention for Dan Uggla. Look at what he did before!

[zitothebrave]

New expectations are built in each year. You can't just look at someones history and predict what they are going to do in the future. Thats is a foolish game to play. Thats the type of game that gets you into a 4 year extention for Dan Uggla. Look at what he did before!

Uggla isn't very comparable to Mac at all. Mainly because Uggla's value was entirely in his bat. Mac has value in his bat, glove, leadership, and more.

McCann with 130 games played is a 4 WAR player.

[Bdawg2309]

i checked the schedule on the MLB at bat app

it lists thursdays game in this order:

game 1: nl div winner 3 vs div winner 2
game 1: nl wc winner vs nl div winner 1

really hope that's the case if the braves get the #1 seed... tired of the stupid early games