Braves trade Shreve and Carpenter for Manny Banuelos

[clvclv]

Been tough to keep up with this runaway thread!

My two cents: Shreve was nobody's prospect until he added a pitch and blossomed overnight. Carpenter was occasionally on the ragged edge of burnout and scared me to death much of last season. Glad to get a return on him.

As for Banuelos, I defer to Mariano Rivera:
Mariano Rivera, the greatest closer ever to step on a mound, called the fireballer the best pitching prospect he’s ever seen.

Have been wondering when you'd finally show up. I've got a question and/or angle that you may have already talked to your source about that's been eating at me for several days - one that I find a little funny that hasn't been mentioned by the famed DOB and Bowman "insiders" themselves or actually surprisingly not brought up by some of those here we all would rather hear from.

IIRC, JS openly admitted that we were going to take a long, honest, and painful look at the way we've handled our young arms over the last several years the same week that Medlen and Beachy blew out last spring. This is something I think DOB and Bowman have COMPLETELY missed the boat on this winter (I know, I know - we really expect more from them???), and they're going to get scooped yet again when JS/Hart/Cox/Coppy have to feed it to someone else before it gets talked about.

Yes I'm a homer, and yes I'm a believer - that comes as no surprise to anyone. That said, the thought that keeps bouncing around my head is that they actually feel like they've identified something we were doing wrong that was finally brought into clearer focus when Medlen and Beachy went down - and they think they've figured out how to change the results we were getting. I'm sure I'm not the only one that saw Smoltz, Dr. Andrews, and the others when the MLB Network convened their round table discussion last year when the rash of blowouts started. The thing that rang most true (IMO) in that discussion was that there's NO WAY anyone convinces all 30 teams to pool their resources and share "the cure" with everyone else since it would be counterproductive to the one that actually does figure something out that the others don't.

I'm well aware of how big a longshot it is but if JS/Hart think they're really onto something, buying low on the Vizcaino/Fried/Banuelos/Jenkins types could provide HUGE long-term gains and I wouldn't be surprised to see us scoop up a few more of them before all is said and done.

[blueagleace1]

After taking some time to really think about this move -before I made a response out of pure anger- I actually like the trade.

First off, I'm really going to miss Carp as I think he is/was a nice story and a great late-inning reliever who thrived in the set-up role for us. I also think it's pretty awesome that he went from being our long man/mop up guy when he was first called-up to being our 8th inning arm who got the ball to Kimbrel, all in the same season for a 96 win ball club. As far as Shreve goes, I think the kid has the chance to be a fairly decent reliever at the big league level. He (Shreve) did nothing but impress me when he was called up last season at a time which we lacked a lefty reliever capable of getting lefties out.

As far as the trade goes here is the way I see it:

1. Prior to the 2012 season, Banuelos was rated by MLB.com as the 13th best prospect in all of baseball, so the talent is there.
2. With him needing Tommy John surgery and his control problems in the past, some (including the Yankees) have undoubtedly questioned how good he'll really be.
3. If he doesn't cut it as a starter, we will then have him as a LH bullpen piece. So when looking at the trade, if in fact all he is, is a bullpen arm then we pretty much gave Carp up for nothing as Shreve and Banuelos kind of cancel each other out. Another way of putting it is we basically traded David Carpenter for the chance that Manny Banuelos lives up to the potential that so many thought he would.

If Roger McDowell and staff can harness his control problems and keep him healthy, I think this could potentially be a huge steal. Again, we are wagering David Carpenter on the fact that he can live up to the potential he possessed prior to having Tommy John surgery. In the end, if he doesn't make it as a starter and is nothing more than a LH reliever, I still think it was worth "David Carpenter" to see.

[jpx7]

For God's sake can we please now turn our attention to getting offense?

[sgtpepper1972]

Keep your fingers crossed that someone convinces Hart that he's a pitcher. It couldn't hurt to also tell him that the name is John Moncada.

Yoan...Yohan...Johan...John

Now onto the first one...

[rico43]

Have been wondering when you'd finally show up. I've got a question and/or angle that you may have already talked to your source about that's been eating at me for several days - one that I find a little funny that hasn't been mentioned by the famed DOB and Bowman "insiders" themselves or actually surprisingly not brought up by some of those here we all would rather hear from.

IIRC, JS openly admitted that we were going to take a long, honest, and painful look at the way we've handled our young arms over the last several years the same week that Medlen and Beachy blew out last spring. This is something I think DOB and Bowman have COMPLETELY missed the boat on this winter (I know, I know - we really expect more from them???), and they're going to get scooped yet again when JS/Hart/Cox/Coppy have to feed it to someone else before it gets talked about.

Yes I'm a homer, and yes I'm a believer - that comes as no surprise to anyone. That said, the thought that keeps bouncing around my head is that they actually feel like they've identified something we were doing wrong that was finally brought into clearer focus when Medlen and Beachy went down - and they think they've figured out how to change the results we were getting. I'm sure I'm not the only one that saw Smoltz, Dr. Andrews, and the others when the MLB Network convened their round table discussion last year when the rash of blowouts started. The thing that rang most true (IMO) in that discussion was that there's NO WAY anyone convinces all 30 teams to pool their resources and share "the cure" with everyone else since it would be counterproductive to the one that actually does figure something out that the others don't.

I'm well aware of how big a longshot it is but if JS/Hart think they're really onto something, buying low on the Vizcaino/Fried/Banuelos/Jenkins types could provide HUGE long-term gains and I wouldn't be surprised to see us scoop up a few more of them before all is said and done.

What I hope the Braves now have in place are the apparently select few who understand and realize that Leo Mazzone had it figured out about workload and throwing between starts, etc.
The number of arms/years/innings posted by Leo's pitchers with relatively few TJ patients should be a bible for coaches and managers to draw from. Thanks in part to working with Alex Wood, there does seem to be a greater understanding of how to bring pitchers back from it without the setbacks that killed Medlen and Beachy. Don't know DOB or Bowman, but I'd guess that their minds have been poisoned by too many years of too many people scoffing about Mazzone's success.
I Don't pin it on McDowell; there has been no pattern as to when it has hit. But hit it has, more than ever.

[Runnin]

Could these guys have not been used in a more worthwhile move?

What is more worthwhile than a young, projectable lefty starter who can hit the mid 90's AND has a cutter?

[stpeteirish]

What is more worthwhile than a young, projectable lefty starter who can hit the mid 90's AND has a cutter?

sounds like the Braves think this kid can be our fifth starter this year. If that's the case trade will be a huge win. If not, we dumped Shreve. Big whoop. Boone Logan redux.

He's only 23. Might take another year to get him ready but there's some logic to this trade.

Its just so hard to put the pieces of all threse moves together and make sense of it all.

[Julio3000]

I like the move. Two essentially fungible pieces for a potential starter with some upside. I'm not going to bank on a guy with such apparent control issues being able to plug into the rotation immediately, but it still looks pretty good.

edit: can he hit, though?

[dak]

I echo what several others have said . . . Shreve's inclusion was a bit stunning at first, but I think the deal makes sense for the Braves.

A few thoughts on how this move impacts our next steps . . .
- We'll almost certainly still sign a low-cost veteran SP. Manny has a minor league option left and is far from a finished product. I view Manny as the 6th starter.
- We're now likely to sign a LOOGY free agent. Several solid options left and gives you another flippable piece at the deadline.
- We may now be less inclined to seek an MLB-ready SP in a Gattis trade. Or at least I hope so. Would prefer an MLB-ready position player and a lower-level SP prospect.

[Russ2dollas]

I echo what several others have said . . . Shreve's inclusion was a bit stunning at first, but I think the deal makes sense for the Braves.

A few thoughts on how this move impacts our next steps . . .
- We'll almost certainly still sign a low-cost veteran SP. Manny has a minor league option left and is far from a finished product. I view Manny as the 6th starter.
- We're now likely to sign a LOOGY free agent. Several solid options left and gives you another flippable piece at the deadline.
- We may now be less inclined to seek an MLB-ready SP in a Gattis trade. Or at least I hope so. Would prefer an MLB-ready position player and a lower-level SP prospect.

If Gattis is traded and we don't get a long term answer at one of LF, CF, or 3B then I will likely be pissed. I get asset accumulation. I get pitching is a premium. But we need some guys to hit. The kid we got in the first round this year we are probably projecting to be our long term LF.......so we'll what happens.

I think we're keeping Gattis.

[Tapate50]

Carpenter was projected to make 1.1 mill through arby, so more payroll is cleared.

Let's just say we are able to snag Moncada. Could the FO be planning to spread the hit into the ML payroll for his signing bonus (and his Milb pay)?

[50PoundHead]

Odd trade to some extent. I'm more disappointed that they moved Shreve than Carpenter.

[bravesnumberone]

I'm ok with the move. Not thrilled but ok with it.

[Hawk]

I actually like it more than any move Hart has made this offseason, save the Winkler selection in the Rule V.

[Dalyn]

I actually like it more than any move Hart has made this offseason, save the Winkler selection in the Rule V.

Yep. Definitely his best trade so far.

[thethe]

Yep. Definitely his best trade so far.

Until Shelby Miller has a great year this year.

[Dalyn]

Until Shelby Miller has a great year this year.

Okay.

[BRule]

Until Shelby Miller has a great year this year.

Until he gets busted for roids.

[JohnAdcox]

Keep your fingers crossed that someone convinces Hart that he's a pitcher. It couldn't hurt to also tell him that the name is John Moncada.

And that he's coming off Tommy John.

[OkieBrave]

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