DH Coming to the NL?

[thewupk]

Yeah, those are fair points. I don't think those things impact the game as much as a DH does, so there's something to be discussed there. But the game has shifted (literally).

The lefty specialist and bullpen construction has certainly impacted the game in a big way. I think the DH just better optimizes your team for success. It improves your offense and defense at the same time.

[smootness]

The game evolves. You have pitchers now who's only job is to come in an get a left handed batter out. You have defensive replacements who are the opposite of your DH who can't hit and only play defense in the 9th inning.

These weren't rule changes, though...just people learning to exploit areas within the presently constructed rules. The DH was not a tactical shift by players or teams; it was baseball saying, these pitchers aren't good at hitting anymore. Let's not make them do it.

I don't like it in the same way I don't like rules designed for the sole purpose of increasing scoring in other sports. Rule changes should come about because it's become clear over time they don't work as intended, or because they just don't make sense anymore, not just because you want a basketball team scoring 110 instead of 85. Those kind of rule changes hurt the sport, IMO. You can argue the DH was an instance of a rule change because making the pitcher hit didn't make sense anymore, but we'll just have to disagree on that.

[yeezus]

you stole my point. I was going to say that yeezus must not like BP specialization then.

Actually, good point: I don't like that stuff. I don't like, especially when rosters expand, the constant changing of pitchers to match up with the batters. It slows the game down and is really boring.

[bravesfanMatt]

These weren't rule changes, though...just people learning to exploit areas within the presently constructed rules. The DH was not a tactical shift by players or teams; it was baseball saying, these pitchers aren't good at hitting anymore. Let's not make them do it.

I don't like it in the same way I don't like rules designed for the sole purpose of increasing scoring in other sports. Rule changes should come about because it's become clear over time they don't work as intended, or because they just don't make sense anymore, not just because you want a basketball team scoring 110 instead of 85. Those kind of rule changes hurt the sport, IMO. You can argue the DH was an instance of a rule change because making the pitcher hit didn't make sense anymore, but we'll just have to disagree on that.

it wasn't a reply to a rule change but more yeezus saying he doesn't like the idea of a guys only role is coming off the bench and hitting four times a game.

rule changes are a whole other aspect.

[bravesfanMatt]

Actually, good point: I don't like that stuff. I don't like, especially when rosters expand, the constant changing of pitchers to match up with the batters. It slows the game down and is really boring.

yes but it works.. just like the shift works. I personally hate the 4 pitching changes per inning... but should there be a rule preventing them. I sort of like the idea of it.. but that is a complete thread jack..

[yeezus]

yes but it works.. just like the shift works. I personally hate the 4 pitching changes per inning... but should there be a rule preventing them. I sort of like the idea of it.. but that is a complete thread jack..

I'm just saying, if the idea of a DH means I don't like the idea of bullpen matchups, you're absolutely right. There's things I don't like about both of them.

[chop2chip]

These weren't rule changes, though...just people learning to exploit areas within the presently constructed rules. The DH was not a tactical shift by players or teams; it was baseball saying, these pitchers aren't good at hitting anymore. Let's not make them do it.

To elaborate on your point further (I think you're right, generally).

The American League, at the time, was a far less profitable and attractive league at the time. The AL chose to adopt the DH as a means to attract aging stars to play in the American League (and to continue the career of the stars that they had). That ended up being a brilliant maneuver because the American League has no doubt benefited from the DH with gate-attractions like David Ortiz, Molitor, Frank Thomas, etc. finding a place on the field when they may have washed out of the league completely if there wasn't a DH.

[mfree80]

But as you've said pitchers aren't going to start getting better at hitting, its not going to happen.

Eventually the NFL said these XPs are pointless, we are moving the kick back so that something might actually happen. That's also true in baseball, people are tired of seeing (mostly) useless hitters get up there and flail around. Its not good for the sport and as many have noted having two leagues with different rules is silly if there's interleague play.

Even though I have also accepted it as inevitable, there is still a significant opportunity for pitchers to contribute to the game offensively. Some pitchers are really good at bunting and moving runners over. A few pitchers are still good hitters. The DH completely diminishes that tool, making it useless. I like the idea of making a pitchers ability to hit, bunt and otherwise affect the game a useful part of the game. That should be rewarded, not eliminated.

But alas, I see the opposite happening.

[BlackwaterPark]

To elaborate on your point further (I think you're right, generally).

The American League, at the time, was a far less profitable and attractive league at the time. The AL chose to adopt the DH as a means to attract aging stars to play in the American League (and to continue the career of the stars that they had). That ended up being a brilliant maneuver because the American League has no doubt benefited from the DH with gate-attractions like David Ortiz, Molitor, Frank Thomas, etc. finding a place on the field when they may have washed out of the league completely if there wasn't a DH.

Exactly this. We could have gotten 2 more years out of Chipper as a DH I bet, and he could have gotten close, if not to 500 HR's.

[thewupk]

These weren't rule changes, though...just people learning to exploit areas within the presently constructed rules. The DH was not a tactical shift by players or teams; it was baseball saying, these pitchers aren't good at hitting anymore. Let's not make them do it.

I don't like it in the same way I don't like rules designed for the sole purpose of increasing scoring in other sports. Rule changes should come about because it's become clear over time they don't work as intended, or because they just don't make sense anymore, not just because you want a basketball team scoring 110 instead of 85. Those kind of rule changes hurt the sport, IMO. You can argue the DH was an instance of a rule change because making the pitcher hit didn't make sense anymore, but we'll just have to disagree on that.

It was a way to keep older players who couldn't play the field anymore to still be able to hit.

[cajunrevenge]

I still like the idea of designated fielder in the NFL. That way you can a DH but the pitcher still has to hit because no one can field for him. Defensive highlights are great for the game. There's lots of great defenders who never make the majors.

[NinersSBChamps]

Baseball is a joke if they make the DH universal. Pitchers are baseball players too. Guess maybe we should treat quarterbacks like this too. Maybe call the play dead if they throw an interception.

[zbhargrove]

Baseball is a joke if they make the DH universal. Pitchers are baseball players too. Guess maybe we should treat quarterbacks like this too. Maybe call the play dead if they throw an interception.

We have seen it with quarterbacks... they are treated with kid gloves now. Calling the play dead when they throw an interception? That's not even close to a valid comparison.

[Carp]

The game evolves. You have pitchers now who's only job is to come in an get a left handed batter out. You have defensive replacements who are the opposite of your DH who can't hit and only play defense in the 9th inning.

That isn't relatable at all. Defensive replacements still get a good amount of at bats throughout the year. And LOOGY's still face plenty of RHH.

Pitchers are players too. They should have to hit. The AL needs to change. Not the other way around.

[thewupk]

That isn't relatable at all. Defensive replacements still get a good amount of at bats throughout the year. And LOOGY's still face plenty of RHH.

Pitchers are players too. They should have to hit. The AL needs to change. Not the other way around.

While that is true they still have current jobs that didn't exist 50 years ago. Pitchers are players and their job is to pitch. The DH has been in MLB for a couple of generations now. It's more common and accepted through all forms of baseball. The NL will adopt it soon as a natural progression of the game.

[50PoundHead]

I've always been for home-team option. David Ortiz coming to town? Make him play 1B.

[VirginiaBrave]

Again the simplest way to make things right is to use it with games where an AL team is involved, but leave it alone inside the NL. Everybody's happy and the disadvantage disappears.

[yeezus]

Again the simplest way to make things right is to use it with games where an AL team is involved, but leave it alone inside the NL. Everybody's happy and the disadvantage disappears.

Wouldn't an NL team be disadvantaged when using it vs an AL team?

[Enscheff]

Again the simplest way to make things right is to use it with games where an AL team is involved, but leave it alone inside the NL. Everybody's happy and the disadvantage disappears.

The advantage is deeper than just inside the game being played. It spreads to the entire roster excercise of construction and the AL's ability to sign bigger FA talent because they have a full time DH position those guys can transition into.

[VirginiaBrave]

The advantage is deeper than just inside the game being played. It spreads to the entire roster excercise of construction and the AL's ability to sign bigger FA talent because they have a full time DH position those guys can transition into.

Disagree because we don't play enough games against AL teams for that to matter. You can throw out a million, I promise I have a million and one.