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Thread: Braves trade Mallex and Simmons to M's for Gohara and Burrows

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    Quote Originally Posted by thethe View Post
    With the amount of cheap pitching that is set to hit the big leagues in the next 4 years you could conceivably go all out on position prospects.

    Maybe big offers are in the works for guys like Machado....
    I doubt that.

    I think it lets you have the ammo to go get a hitter. I think it gives you the stable to potentially pay big money to a position guy (Donaldson, Machado) b/c you are saving on the pitching side.

    I just don't see this group ever drafting more than two position guys in a row.

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    People keep mentioning Machado, but there is about a 5% chance, at best, he's even on the market.

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    Quote Originally Posted by smootness View Post
    If you took just our LHP prospects, we would likely have the best collection of pitching prospects in baseball:
    Newcomb
    Allard
    Fried
    Wentz
    Gohara
    Muller
    Sanchez

    And that doesn't include Soroka, Anderson, Touki, and Sims.

    That's insane.
    Also Jesse Biddle.
    "Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chico View Post
    I think it could be as well. We're trying to pitch to fans that we're moving forward and on the surface we just traded 2 major league ready players for two A ball pitchers. Plus of course we opened up two roster spots.
    Two roster spots soon to be taken up by the 4th OFer and another IFer.

    Folks really are grasping at straws in desperation for the Braves to make that trade for an Ace that isn't going to happen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by striker42 View Post
    Gohara is a perfect example of something that irks me about prospect writeups. You'll see the writeup about a prospect saying "His fastball comes in at 98 MPH, he has a devastating slider, and a developing changeup to go along with good control and a great feel for pitching." It will then end with the conclusion "He has a ceiling of a 3rd or 4th starter or a setup reliever". You'll see effusive praise followed by a prediction of mediocrity.
    Almost all those 50 FV pitchers have a good fastball, a good primary offspeed pitch, and a developing 3rd pitch. It's their poor control (like Touki, Newcomb, Sims) that will relagate them to the BP.

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    FG write-up on the pieces in yesterday's trade. I think it's a pretty good assessment on Mallex. Speed should allow him to be an above average CF, but his arm and some difficulties judging balls hit behind him likely prevent him from being a top-tier CF. At the plate, all signs point to him being a platoon player. I would add that baserunning skills are very raw (is not able to turn plus-plus speed into the results you would hope for).

    The write-up on Gohara is pretty much choose your own adventure, which I think is appropriate given the high risk.

    http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/scout...new-prospects/

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    Quote Originally Posted by smootness View Post
    If you took just our LHP prospects, we would likely have the best collection of pitching prospects in baseball:
    Newcomb
    Allard
    Fried
    Wentz
    Gohara
    Muller
    Sanchez

    And that doesn't include Soroka, Anderson, Touki, and Sims.

    That's insane.
    Might want to pump the breaks on the hyperbole a bit. There are 12 LHPs in the Top 100, and the Braves have 2 of them. A team with 2 Top 100 pitchers is not the best stable of pitching prospects in the game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by smootness View Post
    People keep mentioning Machado, but there is about a 5% chance, at best, he's even on the market.
    There's about a 95% chance he is on the market because the O's certainly can't afford to extend him.

    There's about a 0.05% chance the Braves are even mentioned as serious bidders for Machado's forthcoming $400M contract.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Enscheff View Post
    Almost all those 50 FV pitchers have a good fastball, a good primary offspeed pitch, and a developing 3rd pitch. It's their poor control (like Touki, Newcomb, Sims) that will relagate them to the BP.

    No doubt. However, all three of Touki, Newcomb, and Sims could be front line starters if they can fix their control issues and continue to develop. I don't get why some guys like that have a number 3 starter ceiling put on them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by striker42 View Post
    Gohara is a perfect example of something that irks me about prospect writeups. You'll see the writeup about a prospect saying "His fastball comes in at 98 MPH, he has a devastating slider, and a developing changeup to go along with good control and a great feel for pitching." It will then end with the conclusion "He has a ceiling of a 3rd or 4th starter or a setup reliever". You'll see effusive praise followed by a prediction of mediocrity.
    It really makes me take prognosticators with a grain of salt on the opposite end. Every pitcher that throws 95+ has filthy stuff and should be a top xxx prospect in baseball, even if they are relegated to the bullpen. Back in the day, yes, these guys would stand out. However, we are getting to the point where almost a quarter of all pitchers are going to throw 95+. They can't all be wonderkid prospects.

    And pitcher velocities decrease as they age so they need something else to rely on. Sure, higher velocity allows for a higher margin of error.
    "Yes, I did think Aldrich was good UNTIL I SAW HIM PLAY. "- thethe

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    Quote Originally Posted by striker42 View Post
    No doubt. However, all three of Touki, Newcomb, and Sims could be front line starters if they can fix their control issues and continue to develop. I don't get why some guys like that have a number 3 starter ceiling put on them.

    Guys that exert the energy that is required to throw 95 often have control issues. Thats why you hear easy gas. So, they either have to figure out a way to improve control while still throwing hard or figure out how to get guys out by throwing not as hard.

    I would be a rocket scientist if I just fixed my intelligence.
    "Yes, I did think Aldrich was good UNTIL I SAW HIM PLAY. "- thethe

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    Quote Originally Posted by Enscheff View Post
    Two roster spots soon to be taken up by the 4th OFer and another IFer.

    Folks really are grasping at straws in desperation for the Braves to make that trade for an Ace that isn't going to happen.
    I think it will. i just don't know when. I think the Braves are looking to offer Newcombe, Wentz or Mueller, Gohara and throw in Wisler or Blair. And that's the offer. And everyone on the board will say that's not enough for Q or Archer. And it shouldn't be. But eventually that clock will run down. Every day is a day less of control and a chance at an injury. I'm not sure if that offer with a Moncada like prospect is going to be available. I think we get a big trade done.

    I don't think we will get a big FA, but we could. It's almost like a NBA trade where you are just putting yourself in position for that disgruntled superstar when they come. After this year we could dump Markakis and replace him with DPeterson and likely not lose anything. Then we could have minimum salaries at RF, SS, and 2B with Albies. Still pretty cheap in CF. We would have the room to make a big signing if the opportunity presents itself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by striker42 View Post
    No doubt. However, all three of Touki, Newcomb, and Sims could be front line starters if they can fix their control issues and continue to develop. I don't get why some guys like that have a number 3 starter ceiling put on them.
    Longenhagen for FG just pegged Gohara with 2/3 SP upside.

    Here is the type of praise they heap on future Aces"

    "Giolito has the highest ceiling among Minor League pitchers, boasting an elite fastball that sits mid-to-upper-90s and a 12-to-6 curveball that he throws with power and hard, downer action. His changeup has steadily improved in the past two seasons and his confidence along with it, giving him a legitimate weapon against left-handed hitters."

    "The big right-hander has serious swing-and-miss stuff, with a fastball that touches the mid-90s consistently and can hit triple digits to complement a devastating power curveball. Unlike some young pitchers, Reyes is willing to throw his changeup and understands the value of having it to make his two plus offerings better. Though it's behind the other two, it should be Major League average in time.

    Command and control have been Reyes' biggest obstacles, but he's improved tremendously over the past couple of seasons, particularly in terms of his fastball command."

    "His stuff is ready to get big league hitters out, starting with a mid-to-upper-90s fastball that gets swings and misses both in and out of the strike zone. When Glasnow returned from an ankle injury in 2015, his feel for his curveball was inconsistent, forcing him to throw his changeup more and helping him improve his third offering. Control has always been his biggest issue, but he's made significant strides in that area. "

    Notice a trend? Huge fastball, elite breaking ball, a change that is already showing results, and command that is already coming together. These are not guys with a good fastball/curve combo with the potential to add a change and poor command. These are guys with 3 plus or better pitches and demonstrated command.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Enscheff View Post
    Two roster spots soon to be taken up by the 4th OFer and another IFer.

    Folks really are grasping at straws in desperation for the Braves to make that trade for an Ace that isn't going to happen.
    A couple of pages back I said it was likely to sign 2 veteran free agents to flip in July.

    I'll refrain from being condescending about your comprehension skills though as that would make me seem juvenile.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Enscheff View Post
    Might want to pump the breaks on the hyperbole a bit. There are 12 LHPs in the Top 100, and the Braves have 2 of them. A team with 2 Top 100 pitchers is not the best stable of pitching prospects in the game.
    You do realize that the Braves are one of just 30 MLB teams, yes?

    Give me one better.

    Also, it's 'brakes'.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thewupk View Post
    Ender being the better player and willing to sign a super team friendly deal doesn't automatically equate to Mallex being a 4th OF even if that would be his role on this team in 2017.
    I mean he's literally a fourth OF.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Russ2dollas View Post
    I think it will. i just don't know when. I think the Braves are looking to offer Newcombe, Wentz or Mueller, Gohara and throw in Wisler or Blair. And that's the offer. And everyone on the board will say that's not enough for Q or Archer. And it shouldn't be. But eventually that clock will run down. Every day is a day less of control and a chance at an injury. I'm not sure if that offer with a Moncada like prospect is going to be available. I think we get a big trade done.

    I don't think we will get a big FA, but we could. It's almost like a NBA trade where you are just putting yourself in position for that disgruntled superstar when they come. After this year we could dump Markakis and replace him with DPeterson and likely not lose anything. Then we could have minimum salaries at RF, SS, and 2B with Albies. Still pretty cheap in CF. We would have the room to make a big signing if the opportunity presents itself.
    Do you honestly think any team other than the Braves would trade an extremely valuable MLB piece like Q or Archer for a handful of pitching prospects, all of whom probably fall outside the Top 50? That package isn't even close to the one the ChiSox got for Eaton, which contained 2 of the Top 10 RHP prospects in the game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by smootness View Post
    You do realize that the Braves are one of just 30 MLB teams, yes?

    Give me one better.

    Also, it's 'brakes'.
    Um, sure. Easily. White Sox.

    Giolito #3
    Kopech #30
    Lopez #38
    Fulmer #58

    It's not very hard to find teams with more than 2 pitchers in the Top 100.

    That was a completely moronic hyperbole about the Braves system, and I can't wait to see you backpedal away from the comment. I'm guessing it will hinge on the rankings being out of date or incorrect.

    Just because you list the names out and declare "that's insane" while touching yourself doesn't make them any better than they are.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chico View Post
    I think it could be as well. We're trying to pitch to fans that we're moving forward and on the surface we just traded 2 major league ready players for two A ball pitchers. Plus of course we opened up two roster spots.
    They had nowhere to play Mallex and Simmons is one of a number of bullpen possibilities and coming off major injury.

    I don't think they've hurt the 2017 team and I don't think they haven't affected the messaging.

    Still not sure if I like the return but this was a trade that needed to happen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Southcack77 View Post
    They had nowhere to play Mallex and Simmons is one of a number of bullpen possibilities and coming off major injury.

    I don't think they've hurt the 2017 team and I don't think they haven't affected the messaging.

    Still not sure if I like the return but this was a trade that needed to happen.
    I understand the reasoning behind it, but I also think we're going to use those two 40 man roster spots on major league players. We have 3 positions we can upgrade in Chase Darnaud, Mel Rojas Jr., and Anthony Decker. We could upgrade any of those and still options those players back to the minors. That's why I think the timing of the trade is what it is. We have something else in place. It could be a trade or two, but I think it's more than likely free agents.

    I think Chris Coghlan could be one. Matt Wieters is of course an option as well.

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