Official 2017 Trade Deadilne Thread

[sturg33]

I don't think the John's will wait b/c they think we are about to be good.

And I do think you need some time to work things out. IF you you want to be good in 2019 then Swanson and Albies and some of the pitchers need to get a bunch of firsts out of the way if you are going to count on them.

That said, I'd consider going Comargo/Jace or just Comargo for a year or less to optimize Albies' clock. I'd even consider a 1 year deal for Phillips if it's a single digit deal.

Same thing with Acuna. The best thing Neck might do for us is block Acuna next year. It just seems like Acuna is destined to make his debut next year and I don't like it.

I agree... you want players to get some experience in before you really want to depend on them. You also want to stagger callups so you don't get nailed with pending free agency by everyone at once. That's what happened to us with Heyward and JUp, which kind of forced our hand into a rebuild.

[sturg33]

You still create an incentive to hold players like Albies down a year if the team isn't competitive. This would effectively kill the the mid-season promotion of any top prospect regardless of injury, performance, etc.

It solves some issues but creates others.

I suppose you could do something like 10 years of control from end of high school. So you would control all players through essentially 28. Arbitration would still start year 4 of a callup though to reward the better players. Then everyone has an opportunity to hit free agency in their prime.

[chop2chip]

Again, Albies isn't lighting th world on fire, so you can easily make the argument he hasn't yet earned the promotion.

I think you're looking at this with your fiduciary glasses on. Say Albies is still crushing it in July and is clearly ready for the big leagues, it would be lunancy for the Braves to promote him under the current system.

I hate that fans have to be disappointed about the debut of exciting players. Everything about Swanson's debut last year was exciting but it incited a civil war of sorts on this board. If that stuff is happening, then your system is broken.

[sturg33]

I think you're looking at this with your fiduciary glasses on. Say Albies is still crushing it in July and is clearly ready for the big leagues, it would be lunancy for the Braves to promote him under the current system.

I hate that fans have to be disappointed about the debut of exciting players. Everything about Swanson's debut last year was exciting but it incited a civil war of sorts on this board. If that stuff is happening, then your system is broken.

Well if the Braves are 100% intent on starting the year with Albies next year, then they might as well call him up.

I agree, it is a wonky system, but I am not sure how you fix it.

[chop2chip]

I suppose you could do something like 10 years of control from end of high school. So you would control all players through essentially 28. Arbitration would still start year 4 of a callup though to reward the better players. Then everyone has an opportunity to hit free agency in their prime.

Yeah. Something like that would be better. Though, the best system is to just kill the arbitration system and have teams and amateur players negotiate major league contracts instead of signing bonuses right out of the gate.

[Enscheff]

I think you're looking at this with your fiduciary glasses on. Say Albies is still crushing it in July and is clearly ready for the big leagues, it would be lunancy for the Braves to promote him under the current system.

I hate that fans have to be disappointed about the debut of exciting players. Everything about Swanson's debut last year was exciting but it incited a civil war of sorts on this board. If that stuff is happening, then your system is broken.

Even though I hated the move, I was still excited to see Swanson debut. I still make sure I see his ABs before I leave the TV screen to do something. Same will be true with Albies if they make the same mistake with him.

Some folks are able to separate their fandom from rational thought process. Those people are capable of liking Swanson while still calling his promotion a mistake.

[smootness]

You still create an incentive to hold players like Albies down a year if the team isn't competitive. This would effectively kill the the mid-season promotion of any top prospect regardless of injury, performance, etc.

It solves some issues but creates others.

It would still allow for September call-ups, so you're really not missing much. There is no perfect system, but a lower threshold would be much better.

But right now, we're talking about holding prospects we might conceivably call up midseason down almost an entire extra year. If the threshold was 35 games, you're not holding Albies down all year next year, so you might as well go ahead and call him up in September this year.

[chop2chip]

Even though I hated the move, I was still excited to see Swanson debut. I still make sure I see his ABs before I leave the TV screen to do something. Same will be true with Albies if they make the same mistake with him.

Some folks are able to separate their fandom from rational thought process. Those people are capable of liking Swanson while still calling his promotion a mistake.

I don't doubt that everyone likes Swanson and neither do I mean to imply such. I'm talking about the singularity of his call up itself. You certainly couldn't argue that cognizant dissidence existed when that happened.

[chop2chip]

It would still allow for September call-ups, so you're really not missing much. There is no perfect system, but a lower threshold would be much better.

But right now, we're talking about holding prospects we might conceivably call up midseason down almost an entire extra year. If the threshold was 35 games, you're not holding Albies down all year next year, so you might as well go ahead and call him up in September this year.

I agree that it's better, but that it shifts the decision making calculus and the trade off is teams in June through August would be extremely hesitant to call up a top prospect. We would effectively only see new players in April and September. I think baseball is better served with major call ups happening sporadically throughout the year.

[Enscheff]

I don't doubt that everyone likes Swanson and neither do I mean to imply such. I'm talking about the singularity of his call up itself. You certainly couldn't argue that cognizant dissidence existed when that happened.

Of course there was. It was an objectively bad move for the Braves organization.

As a Braves fan, I will always be more concerned about the Braves benefiting from a move more so than how any single player benefits.

[Tapate50]

From the outside looking in, it certainly seems like Albies will play his way onto the roster sooner rather than June of next year. Not that it matters, but damn he's playing well now that he has recovered a bit more. The power is starting to show as well.

Im not a huge fan of bringing him up mind you, but its hard to ignore.

[chop2chip]

Of course there was. It was an objectively bad move for the Braves organization.

As a Braves fan, I will always be more concerned about the Braves benefiting from a move more so than how any single player benefits.

Not sure my point is being understood. This isn't about the player or the team, per se.

The Dansby call up was shortsighted and was/is questionable even with the benefit of hindsight. My point is that the mere existence of this discussion of controlling service time is evidence enough that the system is broken.

Imagine if the Lakers had the choice to delay Lonzo Ball's debut a year so that it could coincide with Paul George and a hypothetical championship window. Luckily for Lakers fans they get to enjoy Ball next year unabated by the though of long term remorse.This is apples to oranges, mind you, but I think it highlights a real issue with baseball that is possible to fix, contrary to the popular notion that there isn't a solution, so we should just accept the reality.

[seanyates]

Per MLBTR, the Yankees have inquired about Justin Bour. Any chance we could do Adams, Jaime and Viz/JJ for Andujar?

[Enscheff]

Per MLBTR, the Yankees have inquired about Justin Bour. Any chance we could do Adams, Jaime and Viz/JJ for Andujar?

They just called up Andujar to try his hand at 3B after tearing up AA/AAA. I think the Braves are a few months too late to acquire him.

I still think they are the best match with the Braves for a package though.

[Tapate50]

They just called up Andujar to try his hand at 3B after tearing up AA/AAA. I think the Braves are a year too late to acquire him.

I still think they are the best match with the Braves for a package though.

Fixed.

[Carp]

And what would you call a 2 pitch guy with a 4 ERA? That's exactly what Newk will be if he can't develop that third pitch.

BP is still very much in play for Newk.

Newks offerings are good enough that he could conceivably be a very good SP even without developing much of a 3rd pitch. Several pitchers have had long, successful careers whilst being mostly a two pitch pitcher. That isn't to say that it's likely, but it isn't some crazy long shot either. Obviously, developing a 3rd pitch is much preferred.

[Hawk]

Yankees are 'concerned' Bird might not be back this season ...

[Enscheff]

Newks offerings are good enough that he could conceivably be a very good SP even without developing much of a 3rd pitch. Several pitchers have had long, successful careers whilst being mostly a two pitch pitcher. That isn't to say that it's likely, but it isn't some crazy long shot either. Obviously, developing a 3rd pitch is much preferred.

I would be interested to see if you can identify any starter that has produced 3+ WAR over more than a couple seasons without throwing a third pitch ~10% of the time. A true 2 pitch guy that was a MOR pitcher or better for an extended period of time.

[Oklahomabrave]

I would be interested to see if you can identify any starter that has produced 3+ WAR over more than a couple seasons without throwing a third pitch ~10% of the time. A true 2 pitch guy that was a MOR pitcher or better for an extended period of time.

Chris Archer.

[Enscheff]

Chris Archer.

Did you just pull a random name out of your ass? Archer throws a FA, SL, SI and CH. he ditched the SI after his rookie year it looks like though.

Archer may be a good example of how often the 3rd pitch need a to be used though. He only throws the CH ~6% of the time this year. So Newk only has to be able to throw it half a dozen times per game to keep guys off his other 2 pitches.