Possible SP target... maybe

[blueagleace1]

With all the talk going around about whom we might attempt to acquire or sign to help fill in our rotation, I started to really think hard about potential targets and one name that I came up with and haven't seen it thrown around yet is...



Michael Wacha.



There are some injury concerns I know, and the premise here is that his medicals check out and OUR staff/FO/doctors feel he is healthy.

Wacha had a horrible 2016 and I'm not sure how much can be attributed to his health but as he's shown in years past, he can be a solid #2/#3 and is under control through 2020. The Cardinals obviously wouldn't just give him away as he still has a good bit of value based on potential alone and couple that with two solid campaigns in 2014/2015. The Cards have some needs and I think we match up well with them in that aspect. So here is what I'm proposing...

Cardinals get:

Mallex Smith- (I am so reluctant to trade Mallex and if there is any way to get around NOT including him, I'm all for it)
Chris Elliis


Braves get:

Michael Wacha


We may be able to do something like this to where we keep Mallex but give them a little better package...

Cards get:

Maurico Cabrera
Chris Ellis
Richardo Sanchez
Dylan Moore

Braves get:

Michael Wacha

Again, this is just me being bored and I'm sure there will be plenty to disagree and consider it dumb but I think Wacha makes good sense for us at this point. I'm totally guessing at what the package may cost because I'm not sure how much the Cards value him. The last thing to consider is the rotation depth they currently have with: Wainwright/Martinez/Leake/Reyes/Garcia/Lyons/Mayers and Lance Lynn will/should be back to start the season.


Opinions...


Thanks everyone, hope you all have a great Halloween and be safe!!

[Lenny]

I keep thinking we might see Ervin Santana back here next year.

[GovClintonTyree]

Interesting idea, blueagle. My impression is that his tough year was almost entirely related to toughing through a shoulder injury. There are guys who get through it and come back strong. If he were healthy, there's certainly a lot to like and as you point out, the Cards can't start nine guys. There's talk of moving him to the pen.

I think it would take a good bit more than your trade offer, but I'd certainly entertain it. If you could build the deal around Mallex and a little higher end pitching prospect and a lottery ticket you might get there. I think the Cards would ask for Inciarte, though, and I'm far less enthusiastic about that, though, contingent on what the doctors say, I could be persuaded. That might be about an even swap.

[UNCBlue012]

I keep thinking we might see Ervin Santana back here next year.

So do I. I think the FO knows he would be a perfect fit and the Twins are even further away that we are. If we could pull a huge deal for Santana and Dozier, I'm down.

[zbhargrove]

Interesting idea, blueagle. My impression is that his tough year was almost entirely related to toughing through a shoulder injury. There are guys who get through it and come back strong. If he were healthy, there's certainly a lot to like and as you point out, the Cards can't start nine guys. There's talk of moving him to the pen.

I think it would take a good bit more than your trade offer, but I'd certainly entertain it. If you could build the deal around Mallex and a little higher end pitching prospect and a lottery ticket you might get there. I think the Cards would ask for Inciarte, though, and I'm far less enthusiastic about that, though, contingent on what the doctors say, I could be persuaded. That might be about an even swap.

Yah but to me any pitcher with a shoulder injury scares me more than an elbow injury... its rare shoulder injury pitchers come back if it becomes serious enough.

[bravesfanMatt]

Yah but to me any pitcher with a shoulder injury scares me more than an elbow injury... its rare shoulder injury pitchers come back if it becomes serious enough.

This.

[Knucksie]

The thread title uses the word, "possible" then the word, "potential" is used to describe a completely made up idea.

[clvclv]

The thread title uses the word, "possible" then the word, "potential" is used to describe a completely made up idea.

Isn't that what message boards are for this time of year? What's the big deal?

Much better than arguing about Jose Fernandez' legacy IMO.

[percival]

Might as well break out our slide rules and prepare best offers for Derek Holland, as the stRangers aren't offering him a contract, and Jaime Garcia of the Cards as well.
Both big LHPs, of which we are currently in short supply.

[Enscheff]

Wacha is the type of arm the Braves could be interested in, but the package suggested isn't even close. Mallex plus some non-elite pitching prospect is probably too little (but close to equal value), so some collection 3 cast off C-list prospects plus a BP arm that faded down the stretch is certainly not even close to enough for a guy the Cardinals likely value as a ~3 WAR SP.

Further, I doubt the Cardinals are interested in selling low on Wacha, much like the A's won't be selling low on Gray. They almost certainly look at Wacha the same way the Braves saw Teheran after his injury plagued 2nd half in 2015...a guy that was injured and they won't sell low on him. The league probably sees Wacha just like they saw Teheran at the same point in time...a solid pitcher coming off injury that isn't worth the prospects needed to pry him away.

[zbhargrove]

The thread title uses the word, "possible" then the word, "potential" is used to describe a completely made up idea.

So why did you even click on it and pointlessly reply? It's called a fan forum bro. It's the off season with zero to talk about right now. All you do is look for opportunities to post negative info

[zbhargrove]

I would like to see if we can get Jamie Garcia. He's filthy when healthy and the health is a concern but he could prob be had fairly cheap

[rico43]

Have to get past the big question as to why the Cardinals would cut him loose? But a healthy Garcia would be a primo free agent with no compensation to the Cards.

[clvclv]

Have to get past the big question as to why the Cardinals would cut him loose? But a healthy Garcia would be a primo free agent with no compensation to the Cards.

Have mentioned Garcia for what feels like a couple years at this point, and would personally be much more interested in either him or Holland because of the commitment term - and acquisition cost for them likely would be less than for Wacha. You just know the Cards aren't going to sell low on Wacha at his age.

An "ideal" offseason for me would be to land Santana and Holland for non-elite or non-core prospects - that would provide plenty of time for Newcomb/Fried/possibly Allard to develop. If you could get Santana for say Whalen and Gant, and Holland for Sims and Jenkins, you'd bridge the gap to the younger arms...

2017 - Teheran, Santana, Holland, Folty, Wisler (with Blair, Newcomb, Perez, De La Cruz, and Ellis in Gwinnett)

if Blair and Newcomb take steps forward by the end of next season, you could shop Holland with a year left (or just decline his 2018 option) and you'd still have 2018 options of...

Teheran, Santana, Folty, Wisler, Newcomb, and Blair with Fried, Weigel, and Povse potentially knocking on the door without having to rush anyone.

[Enscheff]

Have mentioned Garcia for what feels like a couple years at this point, and would personally be much more interested in either him or Holland because of the commitment term and acquisition cost for them likely would be less than for Wacha. You just know the Cards aren't going to sell low on Wacha at his age.

An "ideal" offseason for me would be to land Santana and Holland for non-elite or non-core prospects - that would provide plenty of time for Newcomb/Fried/possibly Allard to develop. If you could get Santana for say Whalen and Gant, and Holland for Sims and Jenkins, you'd bridge the gap to the younger arms...

2017 - Teheran, Santana, Holland, Folty, Wisler (with Blair, Newcomb, Perez, De La Cruz, and Ellis in Gwinnett)

if Blair and Newcomb take steps forward by the end of next season, you could shop Holland with a year left (or just decline his 2018 option) and you'd still have 2018 options of...

Teheran, Santana, Folty, Wisler, Newcomb, and Blair with Fried, Weigel, and Povse potentially knocking on the door without having to rush anyone.

I am less concerned about the actual pitchers brought in (Santana and Holland are perfectly fine targets though), but I agree 100% with the part I bolded and think it is the most important aspect of any potential trades this offseason. Unless the pitcher is a 3+ WAR guy with 3+ years of control remaining that can be acquired for a package centered around Mallex or Inciarte (since I consider them redundant players), I don't want to see the Braves give up any assets of any real value this offseason.

[Knucksie]

Much better than arguing about Jose Fernandez' legacy IMO.

Suppose so, but it was one person who was most responsible for escalating that mess.

So why did you even click on it

Thought it was an actual rumor.

and pointlessly reply?

Seems like it's reasonable to expect the title to be accurate to the content, no? If it's just a proposal, then say so.

[Enscheff]

We should all be running all thread titles past Knucksie before posting to ensure they are proper summations of the content. It will prevent folks who are wasting time on a fan forum from wasting an additional 10 seconds reading a post that isn't exactly what they anticipated before they spent those very valuable 10 seconds of their life clicking and reading.

[blueagleace1]

Wacha is the type of arm the Braves could be interested in, but the package suggested isn't even close. Mallex plus some non-elite pitching prospect is probably too little (but close to equal value), so some collection 3 cast off C-list prospects plus a BP arm that faded down the stretch is certainly not even close to enough for a guy the Cardinals likely value as a ~3 WAR SP.

Further, I doubt the Cardinals are interested in selling low on Wacha, much like the A's won't be selling low on Gray. They almost certainly look at Wacha the same way the Braves saw Teheran after his injury plagued 2nd half in 2015...a guy that was injured and they won't sell low on him. The league probably sees Wacha just like they saw Teheran at the same point in time...a solid pitcher coming off injury that isn't worth the prospects needed to pry him away.

He is going to be moved to their bullpen, so don't see how that adds up..

[clvclv]

Suppose so, but it was one person who was most responsible for escalating that mess.


Thought it was an actual rumor.

Seems like it's reasonable to expect the title to be accurate to the content, no? If it's just a proposal, then say so.

Then why not just read the thread first? If you had time to reply, surely you had time to read the OP.

Really not trying to start an argument, but as Enscheff (of all people) mentions, this is a fan forum after all - surely this isn't your main source of Braves' information.

[Runnin]

Justin Verlander anyone?

The Braves are looking to add starting pitching this offseason and Verlander makes perfect sense for them with the ties he has there.


The Braves' new pitching coach, Chuck Hernandez, was also Verlander's pitching coach from 2006 to 2008. During that span, Verlander won AL Rookie of the Year, became an All-Star and won plenty of games for the Tigers.


Not to mention Verlander also had a pretty good bounce back season this past year, in which he went 16-9 with a 3.04 ERA.