Video of Kimbrel

[The Chosen One]

We should turn Kimbrel into Chris Reitsma?

Uh no.

Reitsma had no zip on his fastball, and his changeup was overrated. Didn't have a curveball or slider.

Kimbrel doesn't throw a changeup, has a really nasty curveball.

Kimbrel can locate really good when he's not trying to throw 101 mph. If he could throw 95-96 with better location early in the count to try and jam guys, he'd be as good if not better than Rivera because he has a 2nd pitch he can command.

[The Chosen One]

Pitches per inning (2013)

Kimbrel 15.5
Rivera 14.7
Uhera 14.2

Call me crazy, but I don't think the 3 extra pitches that Kimbrel would need to throw over the course of 2 innings would be a huge difference.

Mariano can throw more pitches, because he doesn't try to overthrow everything like Kimbrel usually does.

Watching Kimbrel, you can see when he has a guy 0-2, 1-2 ,2-2, 3-2 he's trying to throw it past the batter literally.

Kimbrel still has yet to learn how to have an efficient inning.

Don't care about the numbers you just posted, because I can watch with my own eyes how effortless Rivera's outings look compared to Kimbrel's when he's trying to overpower every hitter he faces.

[sturg33]

This is basically the opposite of what the overwhelming majority of people in this thread have said. Worst. Snark. Ever.

Or maybe I consider "learning" as obtaining "new information" that I didn't already know.

[sturg33]

Mariano can throw more pitches, because he doesn't try to overthrow everything like Kimbrel usually does.

Watching Kimbrel, you can see when he has a guy 0-2, 1-2 ,2-2, 3-2 he's trying to throw it past the batter literally.

Kimbrel still has yet to learn how to have an efficient inning.

Don't care about the numbers you just posted, because I can watch with my own eyes how effortless Rivera's outings look compared to Kimbrel's when he's trying to overpower every hitter he faces.

LOL... the numbers are the numbers. To act like CK could not have handled two innings is pretty laughable.

[cajunrevenge]

If Kimbrel cant handle 2 innings then he needs to be traded. I expect an elite closer and supposed best closer in the game to be able to get 6 outs. How is it in 2010 when he isnt the closer Fredi lets him go 2 innings in a playoff game. 3 years later he is an elite closer and he isnt allowed/cant pitch 2 innings in a playoff game? He even did it once in the regular season in 2010 too. Heck, in 2911 he pitched 2 innings vs the Dodgers in April of the REGULAR SEASON. In fact in every instance he has pitched a second inning he has not allowed a run in that inning ever in the majors. He has even gone up to 38 pitches. Maybe the failure here is that Fredi didnt try it more in the regular season so he would be comfortable doing it in October. The division was wrapped up back in August so there is no excuse. Yeah its a small sample size about the second inning but to me it kills the argument that he couldnt do it because he wasnt used to it, all the other times he wasnt used to it and succeed.

[Enscheff]

I wonder what this thread would have looked like if Fredi did use Kimbrel and he gave up the lead in the 8th or 9th. How many of you would have bashed Fredi nonstop for using Kimbrel in an atypical way? My guess: pretty much all of you.

Fact is they went into the series with a BP plan, and Fredi stuck to it. That plan wasn't created by Fredi alone. Fredi did NOT just decide in the spur of the moment in the 8th inning to stick with Carpenter...that decision was made hours/days in advance. The plan was to use Kimbrel for 4 outs max, and everyone (probably even Kimbrel himself) bought into that plan before the series even started.

The Dodgers beat the Braves because they were better.

[gilesfan]

Ahh, Rivera can be used for more innings over Kimbrel bc he doesn't grunt and make menacing faces when he pitches. Free and easy Rivera can throw that 1 less pitch per inning.

Better to use some guy that got off the scrap heat a few months ago than to use a guy that has shown he can get 6 outs plenty of times before.

[cajunrevenge]

I personally would not have blamed him. If we lost atleast it would have been with our best player pitching. I wouldnt blame Fredi so much if Carpenter didnt already give up runs in his previous appearance in the series. In a 1 run game I dont trust the guy who gave up runs his only other appearance and before the year was on the scrap heap unless absolutely necessary. If it was a 2 run or 3 run game then I would say bringing in Carpenter was the right move. 1 run game you go to the best closer in the game. Pretty sure a lot of people were calling for Kimbrel in the 8th, I know I was. In fact in the thread about stud/dud for the series I specifically picked the pen as what worried me the most.

I can accept the dodgers were the better team but it wasnt such a big difference that the Braves could not have won the series. The Braves are by far the better organization though, the Dodgers had to spend twice what the Braves did to even make the playoffs. Put Greinke on the Braves and they still outspend us by 60 million and we beat the Dodgers if they even make the playoffs.

[ChapelHillMatt]

I wonder what this thread would have looked like if Fredi did use Kimbrel and he gave up the lead in the 8th or 9th. How many of you would have bashed Fredi nonstop for using Kimbrel in an atypical way? My guess: pretty much all of you.

Fact is they went into the series with a BP plan, and Fredi stuck to it. That plan wasn't created by Fredi alone. Fredi did NOT just decide in the spur of the moment in the 8th inning to stick with Carpenter...that decision was made hours/days in advance. The plan was to use Kimbrel for 4 outs max, and everyone (probably even Kimbrel himself) bought into that plan before the series even started.

The Dodgers beat the Braves because they were better.

To take it a step further, if Carpenter gets 2 outs and Kimbrel comes in and closes the door nobody would be saying Fredi made a huge mistake by not using him for 2 full innings.

[sturg33]

I wonder what this thread would have looked like if Fredi did use Kimbrel and he gave up the lead in the 8th or 9th. How many of you would have bashed Fredi nonstop for using Kimbrel in an atypical way? My guess: pretty much all of you.

Fact is they went into the series with a BP plan, and Fredi stuck to it. That plan wasn't created by Fredi alone. Fredi did NOT just decide in the spur of the moment in the 8th inning to stick with Carpenter...that decision was made hours/days in advance. The plan was to use Kimbrel for 4 outs max, and everyone (probably even Kimbrel himself) bought into that plan before the series even started.

The Dodgers beat the Braves because they were better.

I'm actually pretty sick of this argument. Everyone was calling for Kimbrel BEFORE the 8th inning started

[BRule]

This can't be real....Kim can't do it because he throws too hard? I'm pretty sure if Kim wanted to pitch the 2 innings, then he is smart enough to know he needs to save some gas for the 2nd inning. I mean, unless you think Kim is an idiot....

[Dalyn]

I'm actually pretty sick of this argument. Everyone was calling for Kimbrel BEFORE the 8th inning started

I wish I could 'thanks' this about 666 times.

[cajunrevenge]

To take it a step further, if Carpenter gets 2 outs and Kimbrel comes in and closes the door nobody would be saying Fredi made a huge mistake by not using him for 2 full innings.

If your wife told you she bought a 1000 lottery tickets and won 10 million would you be upset? I dont blame people when they get the desired result even if I dont like the move they made.

[Dalyn]

I wonder what this thread would have looked like if Fredi did use Kimbrel and he gave up the lead in the 8th or 9th. How many of you would have bashed Fredi nonstop for using Kimbrel in an atypical way? My guess: pretty much all of you.

Fact is they went into the series with a BP plan, and Fredi stuck to it. That plan wasn't created by Fredi alone. Fredi did NOT just decide in the spur of the moment in the 8th inning to stick with Carpenter...that decision was made hours/days in advance. The plan was to use Kimbrel for 4 outs max, and everyone (probably even Kimbrel himself) bought into that plan before the series even started.

The Dodgers beat the Braves because they were better.

[Enscheff]

I'm actually pretty sick of this argument. Everyone was calling for Kimbrel BEFORE the 8th inning started

The point is that Fredi didn't just sit there spitting seeds in the 8th and randomly decide, "You know what? Let's just leave Carp in there and see what happens".

Using Kimbrel for 4 outs was the plan all along, and a hell of a lot more people than just Fredi bought into that decision. Laying the blame at his feet for following the BP usage plan is just idiotic. But I guess that's what many on this board specialize in, so no surprise.

[sturg33]

The point is that Fredi didn't just sit there spitting seeds in the 8th and randomly decide, "You know what? Let's just leave Carp in there and see what happens".

Using Kimbrel for 4 outs was the plan all along, and a hell of a lot more people than just Fredi bought into that decision. Laying the blame at his feet for following the BP usage plan is just idiotic. But I guess that's what many on this board specialize in, so no surprise.

If you're calling me an idiot for suggesting it was foolish to leave the best pitcher in baseball on the bench in a 1 run lead in the 8th inning against the middle of the lineup in an elimination game... then sure, I'm an idiot

[Enscheff]

If you're calling me an idiot for suggesting it was foolish to leave the best pitcher in baseball on the bench in a 1 run lead in the 8th inning against the middle of the lineup in an elimination game... then sure, I'm an idiot

No, I'm calling folks idiots that lay the blame at Fredi's feet. Allow me to quote my exact verbiage: "...a hell of a lot more people than just Fredi bought into that decision. Laying the blame at his feet for following the BP usage plan is just idiotic."

Now I'm calling you an idiot because you quite obviously can't read.

I honestly don't know how well Kimbrel would respond to 2 innings of work. I'm sure they asked his input before the series and decided they would use him for 4 outs max. I'm also sure they know a hell of a lot more about how to use Kimbrel than anyone on this board.

Maybe next season they will let him go 2 innings once in a while when he is well rested and has an off day the next day. Then they will know and can adjust the strategy accordingly.

[The Chosen One]

Ahh, Rivera can be used for more innings over Kimbrel bc he doesn't grunt and make menacing faces when he pitches. Free and easy Rivera can throw that 1 less pitch per inning.

Better to use some guy that got off the scrap heat a few months ago than to use a guy that has shown he can get 6 outs plenty of times before.

lol "plenty". Every example ever shown here were all pretty much non-save situations in lopsided scores except the NLDS 2010 when Bobby had no choice since Wagner's oblique died.

And once again, Carpenter wasn't just a scrub. He's not on Kimbrel's level, but he's certainly as good as many relievers in the NL were this year. If you remember, he owned the Nationals pretty good this year in crucial situations.

Kimbrel's mechanics require a ton of more energy and power than Rivera's. I know you played little league baseball with some good players back in the day gilesfan, but anybody that watches baseball can clearly see the difference in energy exertion in delivery between Rivera and Kimbrel.

[Dalyn]

No, I'm calling folks idiots that lay the blame at Frdi's feet. Allow me to quote my exact verbiage: "...a hell of a lot more people than just Fredi bought into that decision. Laying the blame at his feet for following the BP usage plan is just idiotic."

Now I'm calling you an idiot because you quite obviously can't read.

Didn't look like Kimbrel knew the 'BP usage plan'. And if it was a 'group' decision to not bring in the best reliever in the playoffs, why have a manager at all? If he isn't making THAT decision, the most important of the whole series, what is the point of paying him?

[The Chosen One]

This can't be real....Kim can't do it because he throws too hard? I'm pretty sure if Kim wanted to pitch the 2 innings, then he is smart enough to know he needs to save some gas for the 2nd inning. I mean, unless you think Kim is an idiot....

Watching him in Game 2, I got my example of that.

You could definitely see him pressing and overthrowing, and once again had Simmons not made an unbelievable tag, we probably blow that game too considering how the rest of the inning panned out.