FTR, I said Madison was elite. I also said Degrom is close to elite, just hard for me to say he 'IS' because he has only been elite for a year.. and pretty good for half a year last year. I just think it is hard to 'label' a pitcher while they are still pitching. Will Timmy be remembered when it is all said and done as an elite pitcher.. no.. just someone who was good. Think of that Florida pitcher who twisted all about. He was elite for a few years as well.. but like Timmy lost it.. I am not afraid to say Madison is elite because he has been doing this for 5+years.. sure he may lose it, and my opinion may change.. I wouldn't want to call Degrom elite right now though.. I would want him on my team however...