I'd have liked to have been a fly on the wall when Vlad was meeting with Obama. Had to be some pretty bare-knuckled stuff going on.Originally Posted by 57Brave
I'd have liked to have been a fly on the wall when Vlad was meeting with Obama. Had to be some pretty bare-knuckled stuff going on.
If the pressure for a punitive US strike is taken off, there's room for either:
1) A negotiated settlement that is palatable to the big kids on the sidelines (Russia and the US, primarily) or
2) A continued stalemate.
The latter scenario is not great for the Syrian people, but since there does not seem to be any great appetite for "regime change" intervention among US leaders or people (myself included), it at least lessens the possibility of a wider conflict.
Obviously, there's no sense in counting chickens here, but it's a relief to see some daylight. And, in light of some of the political grenades that have been lobbed, it's also worth noting that Obama's language (there is no military solution to the conflict) is consistent with that of the other big non-belligerent player (Russia). For all of the crap that Obama has taken, he's been willing to sweat during peace to avoid our bleeding during war.
We can disagree about what—if any—action should have been taken when, but can we at least agree that perhaps we're not engaged in a grand conspiracy to fake a chemical weapon attack to take out the Assad regime, and that perhaps Obama's foreign policy team hasn't been abducted by rabid neocons?
I personally think the public opposition to this war is what is stopping it.
Saw a picture of Obama walking up to greet Putin and was surprised how much bigger Obama is than Putin. After reading Robert Caro interpretations of how physically intimidating LBJ could be I have always found the body language of Presidents interesting.
They probably played a winner-takes-all game of basketball.
Yeah, that always works.
you're killin me!!
Putin's got the abs though, but if it's straight one-on-one, Obama would be doing 360s on Vlad all night long.
I still don't know what exactly to think. Just saw the headline that one Republican believes Obama "drew to an inside straight." True enough. My problem with the dithering here is that if this could happen now, why couldn't it happen six months ago? We've got all the cards on the Russians and we can win with either honey or vinegar if so disposed. I get that you probably don't want to try to kill a mosquito with a sledge hammer and settling easily only gives the Russians more incentive to misbehave, but I have a difficult time believing this whole episode couldn't have been avoided.
and honestly 50 none of us will know what to think until the classified wraps are taken off of the whole issue.
there will be a book in a year or so explaining back channel adventures and create a time frame explaining why it took so long to come to a head.
Kinda like killing binLaden. We have a piece of the picture today while the whole picture will be shown down the road.
Geo-political history show plenty of times we think the issue is (A) when it really is (B). And often we were closer to a catastrophic brink than any of us imagined at the time.
That is why the Sturg suggestion that domestic opposition drove this so-called bargain is naive
Last edited by 57Brave; 09-10-2013 at 09:35 AM.
Yeah, I don't disagree. It seems that we've been stuck in a situation without an obvious move, and O has definitely sent mixed signals. Now this. Not knowing what to think is par for the course.
is that if this could happen now, why couldn't it happen six months ago?
Right. I guess we're not privy to the diplomatic sausage-making, though.
The domestic politics of this are predictably nauseating, though. Some republicans urged him to strike Syria much sooner, or to decisively intervene on the side of the rebels. Some seemed to think that he could do something—wave his Nobel eastward, I guess—to stop the civil war. I dunno. But now, if we avoid engagement, shouldn't the republicans who've been attacking him from the isolationist side embrace him? Seems like instead of applauding the opportunity (and allowing for the possibility that it's the fruit of a diplomatic effort on our part), they're still taking shots at Obama.
If it's a game to ten then the Syria conflict might be over before one of them gets there.
thank you weso1!
Putin would probably shank him when he posted up.
Wasn't it LBJ who used to follow his enemies into the john and wave his junk at them saying stuff like "DOn't worry, in Texas everything is bigger."?
Any idea that Obama had some brilliant plan here is just as conspiratorial as the thought that the US was behind the chemical attack. Obama was begging for military action and it took an off the wall comment from Kerry to light a bulb above Putin's head. In the end Putin looks like a savior and Kerry and Obama look like hapless buffoons who stumbled over a solution to the problem. President Maxwell Smart and Secretary of State Frank Drebin. The only sad thing about this story is it's not only the good guys who win in the end, but also the bad guys.
thank you weso1!
What outcome here encompasses a victory by the good guys?
That's true... there really is no victory. Even not bombing them isn't really a victory isn't it?
thank you weso1!
I'm sure that's exactly how it went down.
It's a victory only in the narrowest sense. Hey, we didn't get embroiled in a war in the middle east! SCORE! But that's kind of where we are.
It reminds me of the way we're supposed to, according to some Republicans, judge the W years: HE PROTECTED THE HOMELAND. Like, the talismanic power of that statement invalidates every other argument. Every bit of context, every domestic and foreign misstep is washed away.
jpx7 (09-10-2013)
Get a gander at this crazy conspiracy theorist, sturg. Someone's partying too much with Chip.
thank you weso1!
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