Sorry I think Folty has a higher long term ceiling and could actually be an ace with the strides he's taken. We actually don't know what we get in Teheran all the time.... he wildly varies year to year. Thinking of long term herrOriginally Posted by UNCBlue012
Solid reply with tons of substance
It doesn't bother me either way I just really love
Folty and Teherans value is as high as it's ever been
Seriously doubt we're willing to give up Folty and our number 1 and 2 prospects.
I would do that deal. Albies is expendable no matter what the fan boys say. Don't need Mallex with Inciarte altho I'd rather trade him since I think Mallex has a higher ceiling and Inciarte has the highest value he's ever had. If we included him we could maybe keep Allard
Allard is far from our number 2 prospect... also not sure Albies is our number 1 anymore arguably
Last edited by zbhargrove; 12-03-2016 at 09:22 PM.
It's interesting how different the reports are on this. Bowman was very confident yesterday that trading for an ace was unlikely. Now Rosenthal and Heyman are saying we are heavily in it for Sale.
I wonder how much of our interest is real, and how much of it is the White Sox leaking our name to the national writers as leverage to get a better package from someone else.
Just curious, why do you think Albies is expendable? What's your plan at second?
Albies is not expendable and is currently #12 on mlb pipeline top 100. He is our top prospect if you don't consider Swanosn a prospect anymore.
Trying not to get overly excited but the further this drags out with reports that Coppy's still in it, it becomes tougher and tougher to hide from.
That said, there's a second part to a trade for him if it actually happens though...
If you do the deal and give up the massive haul it's going to take to get him, you HAVE TO be willing to do what it takes to keep him three years from now. You also probably need to do everything you can to sign Turner as well to plug the most obvious offensive hole you currently have to give you three LEGITIMATE shots starting this spring.
Last edited by clvclv; 12-03-2016 at 09:37 PM.
Has there EVER been a statement and question a certain someone should absolutely never have made and asked publicly more than...
Kinda pathetic to see yourself as a message board knight in shining armor. How impotent does someone have to be in real life to resort to playing hero on a message board?
GovClintonTyree (12-04-2016)
These ridiculous trade proposals from White Sox fans are because of us and our trade with the Dbacks. I honestly wouldn't trade Swanson straight up for Sale. If we do trade for an ace then it needs to be done from our depth, which is starting pitching and CF. One of Mallex or Inciarte and some pitching is the only way I make the deal.
thank you weso1!
bravesfanMatt (12-03-2016)
Expendable is not a word I would use to describe Albies. Mallex for sure, though.
Allard is ranked no lower than 5th in pretty much every publication I've seen. Sickels has him at 3rd, behind Swanson and Albies.
For the package you mentioned, we better be getting Sale and Frazier.
Agreed. We don't need to make the trade (at least I hope the organization feels that way). There is no reason to meet their price. Just walk away and try to finish 500 this year. See where the kids are at that point and then make a splash. I seriously doubt anyone else is ponying up a prospect package that is close to a Folty/Mallex/Albies deal.
Natural Immunity Croc
Confused by this rating of Allard all of a sudden on the board. He was flat out dominant last year after his first 2-3 starts at Rome.
Natural Immunity Croc
I'll stick to my guns. I prefer to not trade a crap-ton away and continue our rebuild from the ground up, accruing our pieces and trading some next year in the much better FA crop.
If we DO get Sale, then we absolutely have to go for it. There's no reason to acquire him and be mediocre. That's just a wasteful year. That being said, Coppy isn't an idiot -- there's a plan in place.
Pretty interesting actually. Jim Bowden and Jim Duquette were kicking around potential trade proposals that WOULDN'T involve current big-club pieces on their show yesterday, and both agreed that they'd still be talking to Coppy if the package was Albies, Newcomb, Allard, and Anderson. Now I haven't thought real hard about that, but I'll have to admit I would have to if that would get it done.
When you look at it closer, that still leaves you with...
1.) An above-average platoon of Peterson/Rodriguez at 2B, and Demeritte to dream on.
2.) Riley and Maitan as potential future 3B options.
3.) Ender in CF until you can get an arm for him, and Mallex until you can get an arm for him as a bridge to Acuna.
4.) A rotation of Sale, Julio, and Folty plus the likes of Wisler, Blair, Sims, Fried, Weigel, Soroka, Wentz, Touki, and Muller PLUS the #5 pick this June to fill out the back-end over the next few years.
There's no question that it would hurt like *ell, but...
We got Newcomb for Simmons and replaced Simmons with Swanson, we got Allard because everyone seemed to be scared of his health, and there have been tons of people (especially here) that hated the Anderson pick.
Just sayin'.
Last edited by clvclv; 12-03-2016 at 10:02 PM.
Has there EVER been a statement and question a certain someone should absolutely never have made and asked publicly more than...
Kinda pathetic to see yourself as a message board knight in shining armor. How impotent does someone have to be in real life to resort to playing hero on a message board?
I think you are spot on. All offseason I've said the only way a trade for an Ace makes sense long term is if it's based on Mallex or Ender plus pitchers not named Teheran or Folty. The Braves have almost zero nearly ready impact position talent, so Albies is absolutely required to make this team competitive, therefore trading him for an Ace makes zero sense.
I would love to be proved wrong and see Coppy land Sale for a bunch of non-crucial parts, but the Sox would have to be stupid to do that.
Albies is not expendable in any way. Him producing 3+ WAR at 2b for the next half decade is critical if the Braves have any hope of being a 90+ win team any time soon. Same goes for guys like Swanson and Folty. If any of those guys are traded for an Ace, the Braves will be so bad they won't have any need for an Ace.
My thoughts as well.
The problem is that this is so, so premature.
Even IF you create a rotation of: Sale, Teheran, Folty, Dickey, Colon
The club will STILL have: Johnson as closer OR Viz as closer; and essentially huge questions about the rest of the pen.
A mediocre offense AT BEST with a more likely outcome of at least some regression from the guys who had career years and some age degradation from Markakis, Kemp, Flowers.
I mean, it's really crazy to take this kind of gamble that 2017 will actually mean anything. The whole idea of the rebuild was to get younger and bring in talent stockpiles for the day when you CAN have a legit chance to be good. In 2019, 2020, if you make the Sale trade (unless you just rape the ChiSox which won't happen) you will have an ancient Kemp, no Markakis, a Freeman past his prime, an Inciarte closing on FA, a Swanson rolling hard through FA raises and a Sale and Teheran being expensive and soon on their way out EVEN IF THEY REMAIN AS GOOD AS EXPECTED. ANd you will have spent a huge portion of your young talent collateral on a guy, while good, in reality helped you win nothing.
Making trades like this is an almost certain pay to franchise purgatory and ultimately another rebuild.
Last edited by Horsehide Harry; 12-03-2016 at 10:13 PM.
Folty - Sale
Albies - Demeritte
Allard - #5 pick in coming draft
Mallex - Inciarte and Acuna
Ruiz - Garcia
So while on the surface it would suck to lose those guys it wouldn't kill us. Having another high draft helps us sustain this blow it would take. But if I give up that much I have to get Frazier back in the deal. If they do that and sign another strong bp arm then we are in really good shape.
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