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Thread: Legal/scotus thread

  1. #441
    Clique Leader weso1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nsacpi View Post
    I think Ramirez and Ford have been very courageous in coming forward. The accumulation of evidence suggests that Kavanaugh was a predator as a young man. And I would hope that kind of behavior is disqualifying.
    I have yet so see any evidence so far. I've seen questionable allegations and hearsay. I may have missed something though and something may still come out.
    thank you weso1!

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    Expects Yuge Games nsacpi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by weso1 View Post
    I have yet so see any evidence so far. I've seen questionable allegations and hearsay. I may have missed something though and something may still come out.
    Things that carry some evidentiary weight with me:

    1) Mark Judge's writings
    2) What Mark Judge's ex girlfriend recounted about an assault involving Judge and one of his friends
    3) Kavanaugh's references in his own yearbook to Devil's Triangle
    4) Account by Ford
    5) Account by Ramirez
    6) Email thread by Kavanaugh's Yale classmates wondering if the incident with Ramirez would get out

    ymmv
    "I am a victim, I will tell you. I am a victim."

    "I am your retribution."

  4. #444
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    Quote Originally Posted by sturg33 View Post
    Or just, you know, rape allegations need some evidence before we convict.

    Crazy, I know

    The fact that that is crazy is further proof the left has lost it's mind
    I think just going back in this thread you've been more concerned with calling out the left and making this a political thing instead of focusing on the victims is the part I'm referring to. Plus you said even if these allegations are true you dont think it should disqualify Kavanaugh.

    Its political if the dems do this. But it just came out Grassley and Co. knew about the allegations last week and still tried to ram through the confirmation vote.

    https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/s...firmation-vote

    I have not seen you make any mention of this (if you did I am happy to be corrected). I've only seen you lambast the left for "making this into a political game"
    Forever Fredi


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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronald Rump View Post
    I think just going back in this thread you've been more concerned with calling out the left and making this a political thing instead of focusing on the victims is the part I'm referring to. Plus you said even if these allegations are true you dont think it should disqualify Kavanaugh.

    Its political if the dems do this. But it just came out Grassley and Co. knew about the allegations last week and still tried to ram through the confirmation vote.

    https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/s...firmation-vote

    I have not seen you make any mention of this (if you did I am happy to be corrected). I've only seen you lambast the left for "making this into a political game"
    btw the politics of this are disastrous for the president and the GOP...but there is a certain amount of poetic justice having this boomerang on a president who himself is a misogynist and predator and the party that nominated him...it will only get worse if they choose to dig in, which apparently is what their instinct is
    "I am a victim, I will tell you. I am a victim."

    "I am your retribution."

  6. #446
    It's OVER 5,000! 57Brave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nsacpi View Post
    ...it will only get worse if they choose to dig in, which apparently is what their instinct is
    why ?

    It's not like there aren't other candidates that check all of the boxes
    The best way to stop a bad guy with a gun is to make sure he doesn’t get a gun.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronald Rump View Post
    I think just going back in this thread you've been more concerned with calling out the left and making this a political thing instead of focusing on the victims is the part I'm referring to. Plus you said even if these allegations are true you dont think it should disqualify Kavanaugh.

    Its political if the dems do this. But it just came out Grassley and Co. knew about the allegations last week and still tried to ram through the confirmation vote.

    https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/s...firmation-vote

    I have not seen you make any mention of this (if you did I am happy to be corrected). I've only seen you lambast the left for "making this into a political game"
    Ive said over and over and over again the Ford allegations are serious, should be heard, and if true, Kauvanaugh should be toast.

    The Ramirez "allegations" are so incredibly weak that they shouldn't slow things down in the way the left wants them too.

    I'm sure there will be others. This has clearly been a stall game.

    I'm much much much more concerned about the precedent this is setting and what it will lead to.

    If this stuff matters, then Booker and Ellison should be done right? And it's fair game to start interviewing every major players old college friends to dig up dirt, right? And any accusations are worth convicting, right?

    Much like the nuclear option, the Dems aren't going to like the retaliation this will bring.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 57Brave View Post
    why ?

    It's not like there aren't other candidates that check all of the boxes
    I mean dig in wrt kavanaugh...it would be smart to cut their losses and move to another of the finalists
    "I am a victim, I will tell you. I am a victim."

    "I am your retribution."

  9. #449
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    Quote Originally Posted by nsacpi View Post
    Things that carry some evidentiary weight with me:

    1) Mark Judge's writings
    2) What Mark Judge's ex girlfriend recounted about an assault involving Judge and one of his friends
    3) Kavanaugh's references in his own yearbook to Devil's Triangle
    4) Account by Ford
    5) Account by Ramirez
    6) Email thread by Kavanaugh's Yale classmates wondering if the incident with Ramirez would get out

    ymmv
    Mark Judge's writings only show that Kavanaugh partied. Something I believe to be true as well. This in no way is evidence of sexual predation.
    Mark Judge's ex girlfriends comments were about Mark Judge and did not implicate Kavanaugh. She also did not say it was necessarily a sexual assault.
    We don't even know what the yearbook thing is. It could mean anything.
    The Ford and Ramirez accounts are questionable allegations. I don't consider allegations to be evidence.
    What is the email thread? Don't think we've seen what it actually is yet other than students discussing the event. Could very well be nothing but hearsay.

    So again I've seen no actual evidence to show that Kavanaugh was a sexual predator.
    thank you weso1!

  10. #450
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    Quote Originally Posted by nsacpi View Post
    I mean dig in wrt kavanaugh...it would be smart to cut their losses and move to another of the finalists
    Imagine Trump not hiring Flynn, nominating/ stubbornly supporting Kavanaugh or throwing paper towels
    All un forced errors

    Why?
    The best way to stop a bad guy with a gun is to make sure he doesn’t get a gun.

  11. #451
    Expects Yuge Games nsacpi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 57Brave View Post
    Imagine Trump not hiring Flynn, nominating/ stubbornly supporting Kavanaugh or throwing paper towels
    All un forced errors

    Why?
    cuz he's an idiot
    "I am a victim, I will tell you. I am a victim."

    "I am your retribution."

  12. #452
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    Quote Originally Posted by nsacpi View Post
    cuz he's an idiot
    Deep Throat: Then there must be something, mustn't there. Look, forget the myths the media's created about the White House--the truth is, these are not very bright guys, and things got out of hand

    https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/All_th...27s_Men_(film)

    very timely
    The best way to stop a bad guy with a gun is to make sure he doesn’t get a gun.

  13. #453
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    “After seeing Judge’s denial, Elizabeth Rasor, who met Judge at Catholic University and was in a relationship with him for about three years, said that she felt morally obligated to challenge his account that ‘no horseplay’ took place at Georgetown Prep with women. … ‘I can’t stand by and watch him lie.’ In an interview with The New Yorker, she said, ‘Mark told me a very different story.’ Rasor recalled that Judge had told her ashamedly of an incident that involved him and other boys taking turns having sex with a drunk woman. Rasor said that Judge seemed to regard it as fully consensual. She said that Judge did not name others involved in the incident, and she has no knowledge that Kavanaugh participated. … (Barbara Van Gelder, an attorney for Judge, said that he ‘categorically denies’ the account related by Rasor. Van Gelder said that Judge had no further comment.)”

    Seems to me Judge should be asked to testify under oath.
    "I am a victim, I will tell you. I am a victim."

    "I am your retribution."

  14. #454
    A Chip Off the Old Rock Julio3000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sturg33 View Post
    Or just, you know, rape allegations need some evidence before we convict.

    Crazy, I know

    The fact that that is crazy is further proof the left has lost it's mind
    As has been pointed out before, we’re not talking about a courtroom evidentiary standard here. Multiple accusations, if deemed credible, are enough to give pause to consideration of someone for a lifetime position historically requiring an elevated standard of honesty and character (which test I think Kavanaugh failed before the current mess).

    But, to expand on SAV’s point about how your primary interest here seems to be owning the libs...Al Franken got bounced from the senate by his own party over a series of groping accusations. Did you forget that?

    I agree that Keith Ellison’s situation warrants continued scrutiny, but you’ve mentioned Corey Booker what, three times? Let’s review: he says he tried to cop a feel at a high school dance, was rebuffed, took no for an answer and viewed it as a moment of clarity with regard to consent. He disclosed this himself. You’re trying to shoehorn that into an equivalence with what Kavanaugh is being accused of? Come on, man.

    Last, for someone who’s pretty invested in the idea of biological and neurological differences between the sexes, the idea that you’re equating an unwanted physical advance by a woman with a man physically forcing a woman into a non-consensual sexual situation is kind of a head-scratcher.

  15. #455
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    Sturg also tried to make a tongue in cheek point about O'Rourke almost killing someone driving drunk years ago and how that shouldn't be used against him.

    As far as I know Beto has been upfront and sincere in his apology for doing so. Trump has denied denied denied. So far Kavanaugh has denied denied denied. Franken apologized and got the ultimate punishment from his own party.

    If Booker, whom I'm not even a fan of, openly disclosed this then it's not even comparable to Kavanaugh whose repetitive denial of any accusations makes it more serious for him.
    Forever Fredi


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    Quote Originally Posted by Ronald Rump View Post
    Sturg also tried to make a tongue in cheek point about O'Rourke almost killing someone driving drunk years ago and how that shouldn't be used against him.

    As far as I know Beto has been upfront and sincere in his apology for doing so. Trump has denied denied denied. So far Kavanaugh has denied denied denied. Franken apologized and got the ultimate punishment from his own party.

    If Booker, whom I'm not even a fan of, openly disclosed this then it's not even comparable to Kavanaugh whose repetitive denial of any accusations makes it more serious for him.
    You are working under the presumption that Kavanaugh is lying

    And Beto lied about leaving the scene just the other night in the debate!

    Re: Booker, it's okay to assult someone as long as you apologize?

    Tough to keep up with all these different standards

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    Quote Originally Posted by Julio3000 View Post
    As has been pointed out before, we’re not talking about a courtroom evidentiary standard here. Multiple accusations, if deemed credible, are enough to give pause to consideration of someone for a lifetime position historically requiring an elevated standard of honesty and character (which test I think Kavanaugh failed before the current mess).

    But, to expand on SAV’s point about how your primary interest here seems to be owning the libs...Al Franken got bounced from the senate by his own party over a series of groping accusations. Did you forget that?

    I agree that Keith Ellison’s situation warrants continued scrutiny, but you’ve mentioned Corey Booker what, three times? Let’s review: he says he tried to cop a feel at a high school dance, was rebuffed, took no for an answer and viewed it as a moment of clarity with regard to consent. He disclosed this himself. You’re trying to shoehorn that into an equivalence with what Kavanaugh is being accused of? Come on, man.

    Last, for someone who’s pretty invested in the idea of biological and neurological differences between the sexes, the idea that you’re equating an unwanted physical advance by a woman with a man physically forcing a woman into a non-consensual sexual situation is kind of a head-scratcher.
    Equally as head scratching is the guy who says we need to go out of our way to ensure women and men are treated the exact same, but has different standards of inappropriate behavior between men and women.

    The difference is, I don't actually believe I was "assulted"... It was a drunk college girl who got touchy and I left and that's the end of it. She's not a threat to society

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    Quote Originally Posted by sturg33 View Post
    You are working under the presumption that Kavanaugh is lying

    And Beto lied about leaving the scene just the other night in the debate!

    Re: Booker, it's okay to assult someone as long as you apologize?

    Tough to keep up with all these different standards
    Never said it's ok to assault someone as long as you apologize. You're the one going from extreme to extreme.

    I'm saying someone who openly discusses it and admits it and opens themselves up for public scrutiny deserves whatever fate the public gives them (voters). But lying and denial doesn't give the public open scrutinization since were busy arguing whether it happened or not. And since Kavanaugh is not going to be given his position by voters directly, it's a bit iffy for Grassley and co to be trying to ram this nomination.
    Forever Fredi


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    Quote Originally Posted by sturg33 View Post
    Equally as head scratching is the guy who says we need to go out of our way to ensure women and men are treated the exact same, but has different standards of inappropriate behavior between men and women.

    The difference is, I don't actually believe I was "assulted"... It was a drunk college girl who got touchy and I left and that's the end of it. She's not a threat to society
    I’m not really sure what your position is. Surely you agree the allegations, if true, amount to assault. Why posit a false equivalence that you acknowledge is false? Unless you’re saying that the allegations don’t amount to assault.

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