REAL FOOTBALL Thread

[gilesfan]

Isn't reed a FA too?

No

[zitothebrave]

The Falcons have put so much effort in finding weapons for Ryan and it just hasn't worked. I think they need to worry about building the team around him and realize that they are better off with him as a game manager than someone you want trying to win games by himself.

Ryan is 7th in active 4th quarter comebacks. Everyone ahead of him started their career well before him. Romo is the only one over him with even close to the same number of games. I don't know what you consider a game manager, but someone who consistently leads the team in the 4th quarter isn't my definition of a game manager.

[Tapate50]

Ryan is 7th in active 4th quarter comebacks. Everyone ahead of him started their career well before him. Romo is the only one over him with even close to the same number of games. I don't know what you consider a game manager, but someone who consistently leads the team in the 4th quarter isn't my definition of a game manager.

He has had to constantly outscore opponents. Our defense has been generally awful in his tenure. I'd think fielding a top 10 unit would put the same squad squarely in the playoff hunt.

[zitothebrave]

He has had to constantly outscore opponents. Our defense has been generally awful in his tenure. I'd think fielding a top 10 unit would put the same squad squarely in the playoff hunt.

Yup. Ryan had never really had a complete team around him. Either the defense has been terrible or the run game has been terrible. Like in 2012 Atlanta had the 12th most efficient defense, 10th most efficient pass offense, 30th most efficient running offense.

[gilesfan]

He has had to constantly outscore opponents. Our defense has been generally awful in his tenure. I'd think fielding a top 10 unit would put the same squad squarely in the playoff hunt.

That is the problem with todays NFL. You have to pay so much to keep QBs because they are tough to find. Matt Ryan costs a fortune and yet isn't close to a top tier QB. Thus, it is difficult to field a team around him (especially when Julio/Ryan take up such a large portion of the cap)

[Tapate50]

That is the problem with todays NFL. You have to pay so much to keep QBs because they are tough to find. Matt Ryan costs a fortune and yet isn't close to a top tier QB. Thus, it is difficult to field a team around him (especially when Julio/Ryan take up such a large portion of the cap)

What do you consider top tier? He is easily top 10. This year would be an outlier, no?

I consider about 5 to be top tier. And then they are gonna cost you 25M and up

[zitothebrave]

That is the problem with todays NFL. You have to pay so much to keep QBs because they are tough to find. Matt Ryan costs a fortune and yet isn't close to a top tier QB. Thus, it is difficult to field a team around him (especially when Julio/Ryan take up such a large portion of the cap)

But largely the cap has adjusted. Teams paying their QBs are no more strapped today than they were 10 years ago. You think if RGIII was living up to his ability the Redskins would struggle paying him 20M even if he isn't a top 5 QB? Nope. In a league where meh QBs like Alex Smith make 17M AAV. Nick FOles got 12.5 AAV in a minor extension. Guys who haven't even really proven themselves like Kaepernick got 19M. NFL QBs get paid and the cap has adjusted.

[gilesfan]

What do you consider top tier? He is easily top 10. This year would be an outlier, no?

I consider about 5 to be top tier. And then they are gonna cost you 25M and up

Palmer
Brady
Big Ben
Brees
Rodgers

At this point, I think those 5 have separated themselves from the pack.

[gilesfan]

But largely the cap has adjusted. Teams paying their QBs are no more strapped today than they were 10 years ago. You think if RGIII was living up to his ability the Redskins would struggle paying him 20M even if he isn't a top 5 QB? Nope. In a league where meh QBs like Alex Smith make 17M AAV. Nick FOles got 12.5 AAV in a minor extension. Guys who haven't even really proven themselves like Kaepernick got 19M. NFL QBs get paid and the cap has adjusted.

Look at the top salaries, the teams with elite QBs can overcome it, the ones with solid QBs can't.

Cutler, Ryan, Flacoo, Kaepernick are all QBs that tak up a large part of the teams cap and aren't top tier QBs. Its difficult to build teams around those guys unless you absolutely own the draft. Those guys can't win games on their own.

The Redskins would certainly pay RG3 20 million (if he replicated 2012) and are going to have to pay Cousins a **** load to keep him. They are going to have to keep killing the draft like they did in 2015 and hope that Cousins can replicate his 2015 performance (which is in part due to the number of weapons he has on offense). If not, they will struggle as well.

[Tapate50]

Look at the top salaries, the teams with elite QBs can overcome it, the ones with solid QBs can't.

Cutler, Ryan, Flacoo, Kaepernick are all QBs that tak up a large part of the teams cap and aren't top tier QBs. Its difficult to build teams around those guys unless you absolutely own the draft. Those guys can't win games on their own.

The Redskins would certainly pay RG3 20 million (if he replicated 2012) and are going to have to pay Cousins a **** load to keep him. They are going to have to keep killing the draft like they did in 2015 and hope that Cousins can replicate his 2015 performance (which is in part due to the number of weapons he has on offense). If not, they will struggle as well.

I don't think we are talking about the same players if you lump him in with that group.

[zitothebrave]

Palmer
Brady
Big Ben
Brees
Rodgers

At this point, I think those 5 have separated themselves from the pack.

Carson Palmer is the best QB in the NFL this season, But he's not been in the top half of QBs in a very very long time. I would hardly christen him elite. Rivers had a stint back in the top 3 seasons ago, he eventually slipped to the bottom of the top 10.

I would largely agree on the other 4, though I still consider Roethliberger a bit borderline, but his last 2 seasons have been awesome. I hope Ryan has a similar massive improvement at 32. It's worth noting, Rodgers kind of blew this year. Not much to separate him from Ryan.

[zitothebrave]

Cutler, Ryan, Flacoo, Kaepernick are all QBs that tak up a large part of the teams cap and aren't top tier QBs. Its difficult to build teams around those guys unless you absolutely own the draft. Those guys can't win games on their own.

[gilesfan]

Ryan had 21 tds and 15 ints. (among other stats, obviously) Rodgers had 31 and 8. Lets not act like these two QBs were anywhere comparable. (while Atlanta has one of the best WR in the NFL)

[Tapate50]

Palmer
Brady
Big Ben
Brees
Rodgers

At this point, I think those 5 have separated themselves from the pack.

If Palmer didn't have that WR corp and a D like that I don't think on pure talent he is in that equation IMO.

He looks good because he has 4 studs to throw to. If someone takes a run at Michael Floyd in the offseason, they are going to get a diamond if he can stay healthy. Palmer has looked good, but would you have said that last year?

Id say Rodgers, Ben, Brees (on the decline?) and Brady. Manning too but not this year....I think Ryan slots easily into the next 5. And I think most people would be on board with that.

If you put Ryan on that Cardinals team as currently constructed, I don't think they lose or win anymore games that they did this year. He did well under Koetter, and they run similar systems I think.

Just food for thought. I think he is much better than game manager, but is he going to go win you games alone like those 4? No, but then again that's 4 players in all of the NFL. Gotta play the hand you are dealt.

[gilesfan]

I don't think we are talking about the same players if you lump him in with that group.

Ryan is better than Kaepernick by a large margin. He's better, but not by much than Flacco and Cutler

[zitothebrave]

Ryan had 21 tds and 15 ints. (among other stats, obviously) Rodgers had 31 and 8. Lets not act like these two QBs were anywhere comparable. (while Atlanta has one of the best WR in the NFL)

TDs and INTs aren't the only things that make a QB effective. Rodgers completed a mere 60.7 percent of his passes to Ryan's 66.3, Rodgers had a 5.67 NY/A to Ryan's 6.81. The only Reason Ryan isn't smoking Rodgers is INTs and TDs. Rodgers like Ryan had a very off year. And I expect both of them to go back to where they were before.

[gilesfan]

If Palmer didn't have that WR corp and a D like that I don't think on pure talent he is in that equation IMO.

He looks good because he has 4 studs to throw to. If someone takes a run at Michael Floyd in the offseason, they are going to get a diamond if he can stay healthy. Palmer has looked good, but would you have said that last year?

Id say Rodgers, Ben, Brees (on the decline?) and Brady. Manning too but not this year....I think Ryan slots easily into the next 5. And I think most people would be on board with that.

If you put Ryan on that Cardinals team as currently constructed, I don't think they lose or win anymore games that they did this year. He did well under Koetter, and they run similar systems I think.

Just food for thought. I think he is much better than game manager, but is he going to go win you games alone like those 4? No, but then again that's 4 players in all of the NFL. Gotta play the hand you are dealt.

Palmer is helped by WRs for sure. But, he was a great QB for Cincy as well. He even played respectfully for Oakland despite the dumpster fire that team was. Floyd is a good number 2 WR, I'm not sure that he's a "diamond"

I agree they HAD to pay Ryan. But, it makes it difficult to build a team unless he's a top tier QB.

[gilesfan]

TDs and INTs aren't the only things that make a QB effective. Rodgers completed a mere 60.7 percent of his passes to Ryan's 66.3, Rodgers had a 5.67 NY/A to Ryan's 6.81. The only Reason Ryan isn't smoking Rodgers is INTs and TDs. Rodgers like Ryan had a very off year. And I expect both of them to go back to where they were before.

Rodgers has a dreadful offensive line and a piss poor running game. While the QB plays some part in sacks, he really doesn't have a chance this year. He has a very mediocre receiving core without Jordy. Rodgers essentially won 10 games alone, we are talking about worst teams in the NFL if the QB wasn't a great one. James Jones was cut by the Giants and becomes the best WR for the Packers.

[zitothebrave]

Rodgers has a dreadful offensive line and a piss poor running game. While the QB plays some part in sacks, he really doesn't have a chance this year. He has a very mediocre receiving core without Jordy. Rodgers essentially won 10 games alone, we are talking about worst teams in the NFL if the QB wasn't a great one. James Jones was cut by the Giants and becomes the best WR for the Packers.

I'm not disagreeing with you that Rodgers wasn't dealt a **** hand. But you act like Ryan played on the Bengals. He had a good running game, and one of the best WRs in the NFL and a really solid OL. But where to go after that? Roddy White can't ball anymore, Jacob Tamme is a meh TE.

[gilesfan]

I'm not disagreeing with you that Rodgers wasn't dealt a **** hand. But you act like Ryan played on the Bengals. He had a good running game, and one of the best WRs in the NFL and a really solid OL. But where to go after that? Roddy White can't ball anymore, Jacob Tamme is a meh TE.

A good running game, great WR, and a good OL is more than most QBs have.