Gray's recent performance and durability issues are concerning. Of course, he's been pitching in the AL so there's a little helium to the hitters' stats. But the Yanks are asking a lot for him. I can't speak for anyone else, but I don't want to part for any of our top ten prospects for him and I would be hard pressed to give the Yankees anything other than a couple of lottery tickets. For all the crap tossed Teheran's way (some of it deserved), he's not costing us a boatload and he can always be replaced from within.
Has there EVER been a statement and question a certain someone should absolutely never have made and asked publicly more than...
Kinda pathetic to see yourself as a message board knight in shining armor. How impotent does someone have to be in real life to resort to playing hero on a message board?
UNCBlue012 (12-14-2018)
Last edited by goldfly; 12-14-2018 at 12:23 PM.
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jpx7 (12-14-2018), UNCBlue012 (12-14-2018)
Folks are letting their personal biases for/against certain players color their projections. Comments about Puig ruining Albies/Acuna/Camargo are pretty silly, as if those guys are so mentally fragile they are unable to dismiss Puig's antics and will blindly be influenced by their fellow Latin player. These are professional athletes, and there are plenty of good influences in the clubhouse to handle this type of thing. Puig's perceived issues didn't stop the Dodgers from winning while he was there. In fact, his ~.870 OPS the last 2 postseasons was probably pretty nice to have.
Given 150+ IP and a regression of his BABIP closer to his career and/or league average marks, Gray is easily projected to be a 2-3 win pitcher...just like all the Braves young starters are.
Given ~500 PAs and some intelligently planned days off, Puig projects as an .800-.850 OPS guy with acceptable OF defense who would slot in pretty well behind Freeman in the lineup.
Both guys carry limited downside risk due to being controlled for 1 more year, and both guys are "change of scenery" candidates their current teams would rather unload. They both represent exactly the type of low risk short term value plays we've seen AA prefer lately, and I wouldn't be at all surprised to see either (or both) in Atlanta in 2019.
Last edited by Enscheff; 12-14-2018 at 12:28 PM.
bravesfanMatt (12-14-2018), jpx7 (12-14-2018)
And Gray hasn't had a 3 win season since 2014. Porcello is currently coming off a 3 win season. It's clear you are mistaken. Gio has been a consistent 2-3 win pitcher his over his career as well.
What we know about Gray is that he's either been injured or not very good for the last 3 years. Even if he were to rebound in 2019, it's unlikely he'd be much (if any) better than Porcello, and likely not significantly better than Gio.
jpx7 (12-14-2018)
Not to mention he was well on the way to easily surpassing 3 WAR when he was traded to the Yankees... you know the place where he struggled at home and pitched the same as before every where else? Look I don't want to pay much for him but he could be a good buy low option and he's not the scrub most are making him out to be. He's certainly better than Porcello Gio
jpx7 (12-14-2018)
3.3 bWAR. But whatever. Use fWAR if you prefer. Gray has had 2 WAR or less 2 of the last 3 seasons and is coming off a pretty forgettable season. Conversely, Porcello has averaged roughly 3 WAR since 2011 and is coming off a 2.7 WAR season. I'm fine with calling them both 3 WAR pitchers. But Gray is not a "much better pitcher" than Porcello.
The point is not to compare Gray to those other pitchers, but to compare him to how well our internal options would perform.
If Gray is the best we can do in the trade market, I'd just as soon roll with some of the youngsters with upside and see how they do. If we can get Gray in a deal that is nearly revenue neutral and doesn't deplete prospect capital that could go towards filling more pressing needs, I'm fine with it. But I don't see the Yankees accepting such an offer.
Keep ignoring the fact that one of those years was because of injury and one was obviously influenced by his home stadium when his velocity was still in the mid 90s and his away stats/peripherals/rates were completely in line with/better than his good seasons. I'm sure that's just a coincidence.
jpx7 (12-14-2018)
An interesting question concerning that...
Aren't all these metrics there to help you keep from paying 3 win value for someone who hasn't been a 3 win player in years?
Whatever the reason, Gray hasn't performed at that level in quite some time. Sure he's a buy-low candidate who may bounce back a bit. Thing is, we've already got Gausman, Newcomb, Julio, Touki, Soroka, Gohara, Fried, and Wright who have just as much chance of being that 3 win Pitcher as Gray does.
Unless trading for Gray somehow gets you Frazier WITHOUT overpaying for either, I'll pass personally. As many have said several times, there's not much reason to go out and get what you already have - if Gray was a legit TOR option things might be different, but he's not. Given his health history, I see very little reason to gamble that he'll get through 2019 more healthy or perform better than Soroka or several others.
Has there EVER been a statement and question a certain someone should absolutely never have made and asked publicly more than...
Kinda pathetic to see yourself as a message board knight in shining armor. How impotent does someone have to be in real life to resort to playing hero on a message board?