Around Baseball 2015 Edition

[chop2chip]

He's in the bottom half of qualified second basement. And is also ahead of folks like Cano, Walker, Utley, Murphy - which may or may not continue.

But regardless - the overall point is that WAR isn't created equally.

Does it matter at all to you that he makes the minimum?

I don't know what the moving standard is.

[sturg33]

Does it matter at all to you that he makes the minimum?

I don't know what the moving standard is.

Of course... I like Jace a lot - and we're getting great value for him.

But I would much rather have kept Upton, and found a different second basemen (like Jose Peraza). Do you agree?

[thewupk]

You really shouldn't use qualified playes as to say whether someone is better than half or not. There are 30 teams. Whether that team is using platoons, has injuries, and plays a lot of people because they are ineffective it doesn't matter. If for example you are 8th in WAR at a position in a given year even if there are only 15 qualified players I wouldn't consider them average at the position. I would think they are in the top 3rd.

[Carp]

Who could have easily played 2B

Easily???

Have you seen KJ play 2b recently? It would be surprising if you had, considering he's played all of like 25 games total at 2b over the last 3 years.

[sturg33]

You really shouldn't use qualified playes as to say whether someone is better than half or not. There are 30 teams. Whether that team is using platoons, has injuries, and plays a lot of people because they are ineffective it doesn't matter. If for example you are 8th in WAR at a position in a given year even if there are only 15 qualified players I wouldn't consider them average at the position. I would think they are in the top 3rd.

Fine - Peterson ranks in the top 45% of MLB 2B

Upton ranks in the top 10% of MLB LF

[thewupk]

As far as thethe's comments about Jace's dWAR. I'm not surprised but it can't go both ways. Either you believe in dWAR or you don't. It can't fit your argument on a case by case basis. Right now Jace is performing a at high level on 2B defense. The real question is if that's just SSS or a real look at his ability there. And that's something we won't know for awhile.

[thethe]

As far as thethe's comments about Jace's dWAR. I'm not surprised but it can't go both ways. Either you believe in dWAR or you don't. It can't fit your argument on a case by case basis. Right now Jace is performing a at high level on 2B defense. The real question is if that's just SSS or a real look at his ability there. And that's something we won't know for awhile.

It's has more to do with that I think defense at second base is more important than LF And RF although I'm coming around on RF in the post Heyward era.

[thewupk]

Fine - Peterson ranks in the top 45% of MLB 2B

Upton ranks in the top 10% of MLB LF

Yeah. I mean really it's all semantics. You are correct in that it should be easier, right now, to find a 2B in the range that Peterson provides then a LF in the range that Upton provides. And that has value too even if they are only seprated by a half a win or so.

[sturg33]

Jace has made some great plays but to me he often looks very awkward and clunky out there

[weso1]

As far as thethe's comments about Jace's dWAR. I'm not surprised but it can't go both ways. Either you believe in dWAR or you don't. It can't fit your argument on a case by case basis. Right now Jace is performing a at high level on 2B defense. The real question is if that's just SSS or a real look at his ability there. And that's something we won't know for awhile.

Can't you just watch him play though? I mean the eye test backs up the stats. He's looked awfully good out there.

[thewupk]

It's has more to do with that I think defense at second base is more important than LF And RF although I'm coming around on RF in the post Heyward era.

See. If you have that opinion you can't really base your thinking that Jace is close to Upton in value because of dWAR. The whole point of that stat is runs saved is equal across all positions.

[thewupk]

Can't you just watch him play though? I mean the eye test backs up the stats. He's looked awfully good out there.

Players can look really good in short peroids. Both offensively and defensively.

[thethe]

See. If you have that opinion you can't really base your thinking that Jace is close to Upton in value because of dWAR. The whole point of that stat is runs saved is equal across all positions.

But if I think defense at second base contributes more to wins and losses than defense in LF shouldn't I consider it?

[chop2chip]

Of course... I like Jace a lot - and we're getting great value for him.

But I would much rather have kept Upton, and found a different second basemen (like Jose Peraza). Do you agree?

I don't think Justin is worth 25 million a season so if that is the price then I would feel much better trading him.

The Upton trade has been fantastic so far. Jace has proved that at, the very least, he's an exceptional utility player who is a borderline average starting second baseman. Mallex has emerged as a decent CF option that could be excellent if he improved his defense. Dustin Peterson has an .860 OPS in A+ and is very young for his age. We don't even need Fried to come back healthy to salvage this deal from a value stand point, but if he does then it was an absolute homerun. We have 4 potential starting caliber players from that trade.

At the time of the trade I didn't like it, but, in hindsight, I would make that trade 10 out of 10 times.

[thethe]

Players can look really good in short peroids. Both offensively and defensively.

I'm not sure you can fake defense in the infield that Jace is playing right now. He has been really good out there and since he is a great athlete I feel like he will only improve with more reps.

[sturg33]

But if I think defense at second base contributes more to wins and losses than defense in LF shouldn't I consider it?

No... bc it's about runs saved

[gilesfan]

First off...Heyward was declining as a hitter as you tell from his power numbers. He wanted to get paid as if he were an impact bat along with a defensive stud. he should only get paid for being a defensive stud and a capable bat.

How much did he want to get paid?

[thethe]

I don't think Justin is worth 25 million a season so if that is the price then I would feel much better trading him.

The Upton trade has been fantastic so far. Jace has proved that at, the very least, he's an exceptional utility player who is a borderline average starting second baseman. Mallex has emerged as a decent CF option that could be excellent if he improved his defense. Dustin Peterson has an .860 OPS in A+ and is very young for his age. We don't even need Fried to come back healthy to salvage this deal from a value stand point, but if he does then it was an absolute homerun. We have 4 potential starting caliber players from that trade.

At the time of the trade I didn't like it, but, in hindsight, I would make that trade 10 out of 10 times.

All for one year of Upton and a supplemental first round pick. Chad Mcdonald was a great addition to the organization. Wonder if that was Hart or JS who brought him here

[sturg33]

I'm not sure you can fake defense in the infield that Jace is playing right now. He has been really good out there and since he is a great athlete I feel like he will only improve with more reps.

He has been good but I still think he looks awkward sometimes out there... He also gets to a lot of balls by stopping them but doesn't make the play - either by not catching them cleanly or having a strong enough arm. These aren't easy plays by any streatch of the imagination - but he's not Simmons

[thewupk]

But if I think defense at second base contributes more to wins and losses than defense in LF shouldn't I consider it?

If you want to, sure. But that's not what dWAR is saying and ultimately WAR in general is telling us. Again, those positions that are 'more important' defefnsively get that added into WAR.