He could string good starts leading all the way to the trade deadline and repair his value. I could also win the lottery. Anything is possible.
He could string good starts leading all the way to the trade deadline and repair his value. I could also win the lottery. Anything is possible.
Giles has infatrated our broadcast
Some people obviously did. I would have liked to seen him traded back then. For the right deal of course. Nobody here knows what was offered. Maybe there wasn't a fair package offered. Who knows. If the Sox offered Moncada and we didn't take it we are crazy. But we don't know.
Originally Posted by Enscheff
I strongly believe that if he had been traded the board would still be moaning about the poor return the Braves got for him. Of course none of us really know what was offered, but if it had been really good value, it would have happened. Since it didn't, I suspect we would have crucified the FO for the worst trade of all time.
I'm sure the Braves could have secured another couple pitching prospects with injury histories for Julio.
You say this but then argue about him being inconsistent as a reason to unload him. Other teams know this. Teams know the type of pitcher he is and that his value is mainly tied to his contract. He should have been unloaded when the rebuild started because he still had several years on his contract at a very favorable rate. As it stands now he has 2.5 years and the Braves aren't close to contention. Just made no sense to keep him at all.
Its 50/50 whether it would be a poor return based on our other trades during the rebuild. I think the Braves were still holding out hope of contending sometime soon and wanted to keep Julio for that. To me it's as simple as that. They likely did receive fair value at some point.
I miss Roger McDowell.
Why was he fired again?
Well...yes and no. Julio over all is inconsistent, but last year he was pretty much very consistant the whole year. At the trade deadline i'm not sure that mattered. You saw a journeyman and often injured guy like Hill getting an elite prospect. It was the best sellers market that I can remember and we had the best pitcher on the market pitching well.
We don't know what was offered, and maybe they made the right call. Do you think the Sox would still have Quintana if the right deal was offered? They also waited too long and now his value has gone way down. Tampa still has Archer (which I do t get what the hoopla is about).
Obviously, looking at the Simmons deal for example....you have to get the "right" trade. We could very well have HATED the best deal out there for Julio. Looking at our big name trades...I have hated most of them.
Who knows...I surely don't. I just felt like we ask for a Shelby deal, when we could have been a little more reasonable and gotten way over Julio's real value. Maybe that wasn't the case. Maybe a Simmons type deal was the best offered and we said no thanks. It just frusturated me seeing other teams make out like bandits when we were sitting on one of the best trade chips. That's all my speculation though.
Wait. Are 2 julion arguments going on in 2 different places or am I confused.
Everyones arms exploded under his watch?
Ivermectin Man
I'm not arguing, just as much agreeing. I just wish we would went with the full rebuild (keeping Freddie, but trading Julio). I think two different discussions have the same ending now that something like Freddie has happened.
I think Simmons should have been kept and Julio dealt. I've always thought that though lol.
That seems like a MLB wide problem
What a epic pants crapping at home, after Fred gets nailed.
Ivermectin Man
It's really simple. Just like it's easy to build a highly rated farm by trading off good MLB players, it's also decently easy to completely deplete the farm and gain MLB player and make big signings. The Padres did the same thing.
Bottom line why he was fired:
1. Depleted the farm.
2. Made some REALLY bad free agent signings.
3. Built around power hitters that could not hit for average.
So, when injuries happened (they always do), he had no farm to get any help, and because of the bad contracts...he also had no money to sign anyone.
Wren, did some good things, but he was also very short sighted. He put all of his eggs in one basket, and lost the gamble...it happens. He did have some bad luck, but he had no course of action for the bad luck.
A team that is trying to contend is going to pull out of the stops. It does look as though he had sold out the organization for one run at it, and that roster was ultimately ill conceived.
But he wasn't all bad and perhaps he was following the strategy that he felt that JS required. After all the end of the JS era was never about rebuilding and long term thinking either.
Even now, you hear echoes when Coppy speaks about how the Braves organization cannot openly tank for long because it is expected to win. I suspect Coppy would have preferred a bigger and longer tear down but there are apparently, if he is being honest rather than weaselly, pressures to win.
Considering the team expected a fast turnabout and contention in 2017 I'd almost guarantee that is the case.
I just don't believe the Braves actually expected to contend in 2017.
Every decision they've made points to 2019+.
I think they would have liked some things have worked out better along the way at the major league level and I think they wanted to make a run at .500 this season if everything worked out. But they really did not take any risk or divert any long term resources towards making that run. Had they actually wanted to contend, they could have gone out and traded prospects for some pitching rather than trying to patch together something with the elderly. What they did just wasn't a particularly serious effort.
50PoundHead (05-19-2017)
I'd argue their moves up until the HO trade had 2017 on their mind.
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