Page 17 of 29 FirstFirst ... 7151617181927 ... LastLast
Results 321 to 340 of 570

Thread: Braves Acquire Matt Adams From Cardinals

  1. #321
    It's OVER 5,000!
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    11,324
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    795
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    3,424
    Thanked in
    2,274 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by smootness View Post
    I would absolutely advocate selling at the deadline unless we are clearly in contention (meaning easily in a WC spot at the time). But posts like this miss the way casual fans think about this stuff. Sure, you will still get people coming to the stadium just to watch the Braves because it's something to do. But while a guy like Jim Johnson is not bringing anybody to the park one way or another, when a team sells off players, it sends a message to the fanbase that they're not really trying to win. So it's not, 'Man, Jim Johnson got traded? No reason for me to watch now.' It's, 'Screw that, I'm not watching a bunch of scrubs lose games.'
    Define casual fan.

    I don't think a casual fan really knows who Jim Johnson is.

    If someone is patient enough to follow the team enough to know the players on the roster, then They are probably smart enough to understand what a good baseball move is.

  2. #322
    It's OVER 5,000!
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Posts
    6,431
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    173
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1,579
    Thanked in
    1,044 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by chop2chip View Post
    Define casual fan.

    I don't think a casual fan really knows who Jim Johnson is.

    If someone is patient enough to follow the team enough to know the players on the roster, then They are probably smart enough to understand what a good baseball move is.
    Eh, they at least will know we traded our closer. Once you're trading away key players (and 'closer' counts for most) while reasonably competitive, it registers as giving up and trying to lose to many.

    I'm not saying we shouldn't make these deals. I'm just saying that when taking into account fan reactions, it's more than the specific players and their popularity among the fan base.

  3. #323
    Where's My Cup of Coffee?
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    1,182
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    297
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    419
    Thanked in
    221 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by clvclv View Post

    Read the whole post rather than looking for something to nitpick about, your post completely ignores the fact that I (and quite a few others who are regarded as "overly optimistic") stated plainly...

    "No one is crazy enough to think it's a team that's close to good enough to make a playoff run (and as badly as it hurts some of the *ricks around here, not even the most rosy-eyed poster has said it was), and likely isn't good enough to even win a playoff series if everything went right, but saying it's not in a better position than several other teams at this point is foolish. The schedule is only going to get better as the season goes on - 33 home games in August and September at the "New Launching Pad" ought to be nice, and September is chock full of games against the Mutts, Phillies, and Fish."
    First of all, its just a different opinion, its not reading the whole post trying to 'nitpick'.

    The point is 'if this team isn't good enough to 'make a playoff run' and 'isn't good enough to win a series' YOUR WORDS, then why keep certain veterans if they can return decent prospects? It just doesn't make sense aside from trying to please a few fans in the short-term.

    You want to really please the fans and get butts in the seats? Build a winner and make smart strategic decisions.

  4. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Preacher For This Useful Post:

    jpx7 (05-25-2017), Southcack77 (05-25-2017)

  5. #324
    It's OVER 5,000!
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    26,261
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    34
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    10,000
    Thanked in
    6,108 Posts
    If you bold an entire paragraph, doesn't the bolding lose its effect?

  6. #325
    Co-Owner, BravesCenter
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    10,516
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    4,345
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    4,305
    Thanked in
    2,446 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by smootness View Post
    I would absolutely advocate selling at the deadline unless we are clearly in contention (meaning easily in a WC spot at the time). But posts like this miss the way casual fans think about this stuff. Sure, you will still get people coming to the stadium just to watch the Braves because it's something to do. But while a guy like Jim Johnson is not bringing anybody to the park one way or another, when a team sells off players, it sends a message to the fanbase that they're not really trying to win. So it's not, 'Man, Jim Johnson got traded? No reason for me to watch now.' It's, 'Screw that, I'm not watching a bunch of scrubs lose games.'
    Funny, the same argument can be (and was) made RE: Matt Adams with respect to the Braves adding Major League talent.

  7. #326
    "What is a clvclv"
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Nebo, NC
    Posts
    9,634
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    5,354
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    2,340
    Thanked in
    1,628 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Preacher View Post
    First of all, its just a different opinion, its not reading the whole post trying to 'nitpick'.

    The point is 'if this team isn't good enough to 'make a playoff run' and 'isn't good enough to win a series' YOUR WORDS, then why keep certain veterans if they can return decent prospects? It just doesn't make sense aside from trying to please a few fans in the short-term.

    You want to really please the fans and get butts in the seats? Build a winner and make smart strategic decisions.
    It's obviously not about "trying to please a few fans in the short-term" - name a team that currently needs any of those veterans you (and others) have mentioned that ANY team needs badly enough today that they'll trade you any prospect that would come close to cracking our current Top 30 prospects.

    Pretty interesting timing really - they just finished an interview with DMGM on XM, and he made the same point. He said (paraphrasing) "you don't trade productive players just to be trading. I've been presented plenty of offers for our guys, but no one has offered anything other than what I consider to be duplicates of what we have in our system so far. You never know when someone has a couple key injuries, and we're all well aware that you can get back in this thing in a hurry at this time of year".

    If someone offers you another Rio Ruiz for Colon or Phillips or whoever now, why not just wait to see if somebody has an injury in a month that makes them willing to give you something better? After all, we already have one Rio Ruiz - where's another one going to play?

    You asked earlier "what are the chances..." - sure, they're not great. The thing is, you just never know this early in the season. All the Mutts' injuries seemed to pop up within a week. While it's not likely, it's not out of the realm of possibility that Scherzer and Strasburg go down in consecutive starts (Medlen and Beachy did not so long ago), and suddenly the Gnats are human too. Some of us just don't see much of a reason to trade away MLB players until you're completely out of it or until someone gives you something that will make you better in the long run. When someone offers that, of course you pounce.
    Last edited by clvclv; 05-25-2017 at 12:19 PM.
    Has there EVER been a statement and question a certain someone should absolutely never have made and asked publicly more than...

    Kinda pathetic to see yourself as a message board knight in shining armor. How impotent does someone have to be in real life to resort to playing hero on a message board?

  8. #327
    Where's My Cup of Coffee?
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    1,182
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    297
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    419
    Thanked in
    221 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by clvclv View Post
    It's obviously not about "trying to please a few fans in the short-term" - name a team that currently needs any of those veterans you (and others) have mentioned that ANY team needs badly enough today that they'll trade you any prospect that would come close to cracking our current Top 30 prospects.

    Pretty interesting timing really - they just finished an interview with DMGM on XM, and he made the same point. He said (paraphrasing) "you don't trade productive players just to be trading. I've been presented plenty of offers for our guys, but no one has offered anything other than what I consider to be duplicates of what we have in our system so far. You never know when someone has a couple key injuries, and we're all well aware that you can get back in this thing in a hurry at this time of year".

    If someone offers you another Rio Ruiz for Colon or Phillips or whoever now, why not just wait to see if somebody has an injury in a month that makes them willing to give you something better? After all, we already have one Rio Ruiz - where's another one going to play?

    You asked earlier "what are the chances..." - sure, they're not great. The thing is, you just never know this early in the season. All the Mutts' injuries seemed to pop up within a week. While it's not likely, it's not out of the realm of possibility that Scherzer and Strasburg go down in consecutive starts (Medlen and Beachy did not so long ago), and suddenly the Gnats are human too. Some of us just don't see much of a reason to trade away MLB players until you're completely out of it or until someone gives you something that will make you better in the long run. When someone offers that, of course you pounce.
    I'm also not saying deal these guys immediately, but when we get closer to the deadline they should be dealt, even if we are only ~5 games back.... what do you consider 'completely out of it'? Because I don't want to be holding onto guys that could fetch a return because we are 8 game back and foolishly think we could make a run.

    To answer your second question 'but no one has offered anything other than what I consider to be duplicates of what we have in our system so far' why would we trade for pieces that duplicate what we might have in the minors? To me that's very simple, most prospects don't make it, you keep acquiring and stockpiling them because most don't make it. Having Rio Ruiz should hardly be a reason to avoid trading for another Rio Ruiz type player -- albeit someone younger obviously.

    Every prospect is a lottery chip -- every single one -- some are really good chips with a high probability of hitting, and some are those $1 gas station scratch-offs -- the more of those you can get into your system the better chances you have of hitting on a couple and in a period where we aren't a really good team it makes more sense to focus on building up that vault than it does holding onto short-term veterans.
    Last edited by Preacher; 05-25-2017 at 12:30 PM.

  9. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Preacher For This Useful Post:

    clvclv (05-25-2017), jpx7 (05-25-2017)

  10. #328
    Where's My Cup of Coffee?
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    1,182
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    297
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    419
    Thanked in
    221 Posts
    x2 post again, my comp acting strange today
    Last edited by Preacher; 05-25-2017 at 12:29 PM.

  11. #329
    It's OVER 5,000!
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Posts
    6,431
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    173
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1,579
    Thanked in
    1,044 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk View Post
    Funny, the same argument can be (and was) made RE: Matt Adams with respect to the Braves adding Major League talent.
    True.

  12. #330
    It's OVER 5,000!
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Posts
    7,772
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    270
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1,491
    Thanked in
    1,150 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by clvclv View Post
    The point many try to make is that they're in favor of this too - as soon as the team has completely fallen out of contention - which it simply hasn't yet. You don't trade guys that can help you win now (as well as buy more development time for prospects who are ALMOST ready) to make your #22 prospect become your #24 prospect. IF you can get something that can be a future piece, sure you trade them. Of course trading Colon means you plug Newcomb and his 6 BBs in his last outing into the rotation. If he's walking 6 guys in Gwinnett, he's going to look like Wisler at this level. The bigger problem is that you're simply not going to get anything of consequence for the veterans RIGHT NOW - no one other than Kemp is producing at a level that's enough to get much of a return at all, and none of the contenders have had significant enough injuries to overpay in late May.

    If the Braves can trade assets that won't be assets after this season and can get anything useful at all, let alone the sort of high upside guys they have managed to get for marginal pieces in the past, then they need to do it unless they have really good reason to believe they are in the wild card race.

    While you may drive some satisfaction out of watching Jaime Garcia and Brandon Phillips fuel the drive for 75 it doesn't do much for the organization and a trade would be a pretty obvious thing that needs to happen.

    It's different if they are legit in the race. They aren't really now, but it is early. If things change in June roll with it.
    Last edited by Southcack77; 05-25-2017 at 02:19 PM.

  13. The Following User Says Thank You to Southcack77 For This Useful Post:

    jpx7 (05-25-2017)

  14. #331
    It's OVER 5,000!
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Posts
    7,772
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    270
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1,491
    Thanked in
    1,150 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Preacher View Post
    I'm also not saying deal these guys immediately, but when we get closer to the deadline they should be dealt, even if we are only ~5 games back.... what do you consider 'completely out of it'? Because I don't want to be holding onto guys that could fetch a return because we are 8 game back and foolishly think we could make a run.

    To answer your second question 'but no one has offered anything other than what I consider to be duplicates of what we have in our system so far' why would we trade for pieces that duplicate what we might have in the minors? To me that's very simple, most prospects don't make it, you keep acquiring and stockpiling them because most don't make it. Having Rio Ruiz should hardly be a reason to avoid trading for another Rio Ruiz type player -- albeit someone younger obviously.

    Every prospect is a lottery chip -- every single one -- some are really good chips with a high probability of hitting, and some are those $1 gas station scratch-offs -- the more of those you can get into your system the better chances you have of hitting on a couple and in a period where we aren't a really good team it makes more sense to focus on building up that vault than it does holding onto short-term veterans.

    I think you are correct. Assuming for whatever reason, that the best the Braves can get for some pieces are guys like Ruiz, you would still do it. Ruiz might end up being a good baseball player. Or a useful one anyway, who will be cheap for a good while. That's a better thing to have than nothing.

    But it's possible that a Brandon Phillips could land you a Alex Jackson, a Gohara, a Ricardo Sanchez, a touki Toussaint, a high draft pick who has struggled with injury. Or an high leverage reliever prospect. or hell, a draft pick. That's better than nothing too.

  15. The Following User Says Thank You to Southcack77 For This Useful Post:

    jpx7 (05-25-2017)

  16. #332
    "What is a clvclv"
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Nebo, NC
    Posts
    9,634
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    5,354
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    2,340
    Thanked in
    1,628 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Southcack77 View Post
    If the Braves can trade assets that won't be assets after this season and can get anything useful at all, let alone the sort of high upside guys they have managed to get for marginal pieces in the past, then they need to do it unless they have really good reason to believe they are in the wild card race.

    While you may drive some satisfaction out of watching Jaime Garcia and Brandon Phillips fuel the drive for 75 it doesn't do much for the organization and a trade would be a pretty obvious thing that needs to happen.

    It's different if they are legit in the race. They aren't really now, but it is early. If things change in June roll with it.
    That's really the only point I'm trying to get across. It's still really early, and none of the true contenders are in trouble - yet, so hold onto what you've got for a little while longer and see how things shake out. If we're still getting offers of depth-style prospects for those guys in late June or early July, then I'd absolutely take them - no doubt. Just not this far away from the trade deadline - be patient and see if someone has an important piece go down in the next few weeks and panics.

    I think that was a bit of what DMGM was saying earlier - that if Coppy (theoretically, of course) thought we were honestly close enough to make a run at a wildcard spot (or the Gnats had a couple key players go down suddenly) that he was willing to give up a Newcomb or Touki level prospect in a deal for Moustakas that Dayton would pull the trigger. The fact that no one has offered him any prospects on that level is what's kept him in KC thus far. What kind of offer might he get from Washington in the event Rendon goes down for the season in the next couple weeks?
    Has there EVER been a statement and question a certain someone should absolutely never have made and asked publicly more than...

    Kinda pathetic to see yourself as a message board knight in shining armor. How impotent does someone have to be in real life to resort to playing hero on a message board?

  17. #333
    It's OVER 5,000! Tapate50's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    24,263
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    9,058
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    5,693
    Thanked in
    3,881 Posts
    Bump...


    Guy is playing out of his mind for us. Good for him and us.
    Ivermectin Man

  18. #334
    Steve Harvey'd
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Posts
    18,946
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1,857
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    5,329
    Thanked in
    3,353 Posts
    I am still torn on what to do with him when FF gets back. He is a superb bench bat/DH/1B back up... but do we need that right now. Obviously he holds much higher value than what we gave up for him.. but is it enough to justify trading him. Will he be effective with less playing time.. All these things make this decision hard imo.

  19. #335
    It's OVER 5,000! UNCBlue012's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    23,426
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    4,919
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    2,636
    Thanked in
    1,990 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by bravesfanMatt View Post
    I am still torn on what to do with him when FF gets back. He is a superb bench bat/DH/1B back up... but do we need that right now. Obviously he holds much higher value than what we gave up for him.. but is it enough to justify trading him. Will he be effective with less playing time.. All these things make this decision hard imo.
    If we had somewhere to play him, then there's no way in heck we trade him. But aside from a bench bat, what do we even do with it? It sucks because his bat is so fun.

  20. #336
    It's OVER 5,000! Hudson2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    8,679
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    956
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1,455
    Thanked in
    1,123 Posts
    He's a lot better than a bench bat. He's an MLB starter no doubt. Some team that needs a 1b or DH should give up a pretty good prospect for him either at the deadline or in the offseason.

  21. #337
    Where's My Cup of Coffee?
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    1,182
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    297
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    419
    Thanked in
    221 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by bravesfanMatt View Post
    I am still torn on what to do with him when FF gets back. He is a superb bench bat/DH/1B back up... but do we need that right now. Obviously he holds much higher value than what we gave up for him.. but is it enough to justify trading him. Will he be effective with less playing time.. All these things make this decision hard imo.
    Its win-win right now.

    I think if you can get a decent offer for him you take it and deal him away.
    If not, you hold onto him and have a really good bench bat and insurance policy for FF and could still deal him next year or in the off-season if you wanted to.

    I'd prefer to deal him, but I'm OK either way.

  22. #338
    NL Rookie of the Year
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    2,469
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    431
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    577
    Thanked in
    376 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Hudson2 View Post
    He's a lot better than a bench bat. He's an MLB starter no doubt. Some team that needs a 1b or DH should give up a pretty good prospect for him either at the deadline or in the offseason.
    Agreed. As much as I'd like to keep him he's more valuable to an AL team who can play him at 1B/DH. I think we'll flip him in mid to late July.

  23. #339
    Anytime Now Frankie...
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    1,311
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    4
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    180
    Thanked in
    136 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Tapate50 View Post
    Bump...


    Guy is playing out of his mind for us. Good for him and us.
    Dude has been outstanding! If he could play Ardonis Garcia level 3B this team would be ridiculous when Freeman's back.

  24. #340
    It's OVER 5,000! UNCBlue012's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    23,426
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    4,919
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    2,636
    Thanked in
    1,990 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Jay212033 View Post
    Dude has been outstanding! If he could play Ardonis Garcia level 3B this team would be ridiculous when Freeman's back.
    Inciarte CF
    Phillips 2B
    Freeman 1B
    Kemp LF
    Adams 3B
    Markakis RF
    Flowers C
    Swanson SS

    That's stacked. But, I'm pretty sure he can't play third 😂

Similar Threads

  1. Lane Adams
    By CrimsonCowboy in forum 2023: Celebrating Our 10th Year Here
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 05-05-2018, 12:51 AM
  2. Lane Adams
    By TheBravos in forum 2023: Celebrating Our 10th Year Here
    Replies: 37
    Last Post: 01-10-2018, 03:40 PM
  3. Possible Takers for Adams
    By nsacpi in forum 2023: Celebrating Our 10th Year Here
    Replies: 39
    Last Post: 11-29-2017, 08:48 PM
  4. Welcome to MLB Lane Adams...
    By Braves1976 in forum 2023: Celebrating Our 10th Year Here
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 04-26-2017, 03:08 PM
  5. Braves sign Matt Capps
    By BRule in forum 2023: Celebrating Our 10th Year Here
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 02-10-2015, 05:53 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •