GDT: 6/30/'14 Atlanta Braves vs. NY Mets

[gilesfan]

Not if it still included Zimmerman.

The lineup Heyward is talking about would have kept the infield in tact and inserted Harper for Span. (Zimmerman in left, rendon at third, Espinosa at 2B)

[stpeteirish]

I'll take that bet. When the Gorn comes back, you can't release Laird. Eddie Perez is the bullpen catcher/manager so there is no other position for Laird.

no, but you can trade him. There seems to be a lot of teams that have lousy catchers and back ups.

[cajunrevenge]

I haven't watched ESPN a few years ago but the one thing BBTN added that I liked was tge thing showing what was coming up. I swear I used to watch BBTN and they would skip the braves highlights

[nsacpi]

So Harper is opting for Espinosa over Span. Not surprising given my impression of the personalities involved. The gnats seem to have a group that is fairly even-keeled and knows how to handle the ups and downs of a long season and a handful of hot heads--namely Harper and Espinosa and a couple of their relief pitchers. I guess Harper views Espinosa as a kindred spirit.

[gilesfan]

So Harper is opting for Espinosa over Span. Not surprising given my impression of the personalities involved. The gnats seem to have a group that is fairly even-keeled and knows how to handle the ups and downs of a long season and a handful of hot heads--namely Harper and Espinosa and a couple of their relief pitchers. I guess Harper views Espinosa as a kindred spirit.

I think it has more to do with Harper wanting to play CF.

[50PoundHead]

They are a much better team with Span in the lineup over Espinosa, letting Espinosa fill in vs. lefties and backup SS and 2B. Span is a very good defender in his own right.

They will probably move the guys around a lot, subbing in other guys vs. lefties (Hairston, Frandsen, Espinosa) and giving more days off to Werth/Laroche.

Span is a good player. I somehow wish the Braves could have landed him and avoided the Upton the Elder acquisition. Trivia answer to a question not asked: The Nats traded for Span and the Braves signed Upton the Elder on the same day (11/29/12).

[stpeteirish]

Difference, read closely, the pundits say the reason why they haven't ran away from the division is because of injuries, just completely ignoring arguably our best two starters, Medlen and Beachy. It's like Atlanta doesn't exist to them. It's Nats and everyone else and if they aren't winning, then they come out with excuses which we cannot use.

No way Beachy can be considered one of our "two best starters" this winter. He never was right after his first TJ surgury and wasn't able to pitch at all last Sept. Most didn't think he'd make the rotation this year, battling Hale and Floyd for the last spot.

And they replaced Medlen with Santana before the season started so our opening day rotation included Teheran, Santana, Wood, Harang, and Hale with Minor replacing Hale when we needed a fifth starter.
So its a remarkable (to me anyway) manipulation of the facts to say we lost 3/5th of our rotation.

[sturg33]

I think it has more to do with Harper wanting to play CF.

Then he's dumber than I thought.

[nsacpi]

No way Beachy can be considered one of our "two best starters" this winter. He never was right after his first TJ surgury and wasn't able to pitch at all last Sept. Most didn't think he'd make the rotation this year, battling Hale and Floyd for the last spot.

And they replaced Medlen with Santana before the season started so our opening day rotation included Teheran, Santana, Wood, Harang, and Hale with Minor replacing Hale when we needed a fifth starter.
So its a remarkable (to me anyway) manipulation of the facts to say we lost 3/5th of our rotation.

Yeah. But at the same time the losses should not be understated. Santana and Minor missed starts early in the season. And now Floyd is out. I think the total number of starts made by Harang and Hale (22 so far) is a reasonable measure of how much we've had to sub in replacement level players in the rotation.

Also being able to sign Santana was terrific. But there is a cost. The cost includes the foregone draft pick. It includes the tighter constraints under which Wren now has to operate for the rest of the season. It might even have a cost next year if there was some sort of understanding that some of Santana's salary could be paid by "borrowing" from future budgets.

[gilesfan]

Span is a good player. I somehow wish the Braves could have landed him and avoided the Upton the Elder acquisition. Trivia answer to a question not asked: The Nats traded for Span and the Braves signed Upton the Elder on the same day (11/29/12).

Yeah, the Nats were all over Upton....would have been much better if Wren didn't sweeten the pot too much and the Braves went back to Span as a backup plan.

[UNCBlue012]

Yeah, the Nats were all over Upton....would have been much better if Wren didn't sweeten the pot too much and the Braves went back to Span as a backup plan.

Again, Harper is an idiot. I'd take Span over the wall-runner any day in CF. It makes no sense as to why he says the crap he does. Espinosa is a pretty awful hitter and his defense is decent, no more.

[nsacpi]

Yeah, the Nats were all over Upton....would have been much better if Wren didn't sweeten the pot too much and the Braves went back to Span as a backup plan.

The gnats gave up Alex Meyer for Span. It will be a little while before we can fully assess that one. That off-season BA had him rated as the #59 prospect. The only prospect we had who was rated higher than Meyer was Teheran at #44.

[gilesfan]

. Espinosa is a pretty awful hitter and his defense is decent, no more.

Espinosa's defense is far better than decent, it's elite.

[Heyward]

Again, Harper is an idiot. I'd take Span over the wall-runner any day in CF. It makes no sense as to why he says the crap he does. Espinosa is a pretty awful hitter and his defense is decent, no more.

Espinosa is a very good defender, not elite but it's not decent.

Good range, great arm.

Still a douche-nozzle though.

[gilesfan]

The gnats gave up Alex Meyer for Span. It will be a little while before we can fully assess that one. That off-season BA had him rated as the #59 prospect. The only prospect we had who was rated higher than Meyer was Teheran at #44.

Fair trade, probably will help both sides, but long term Meyer *should* be the better player. There were concerns about Meyer being relegated to relief duties, which will be interesting to watch. Meyer didn't really have a role as a starter with the Nats.

[nsacpi]

Fair trade, probably will help both sides, but long term Meyer *should* be the better player. There were concerns about Meyer being relegated to relief duties, which will be interesting to watch. Meyer didn't really have a role as a starter with the Nats.

Looking at it from the Braves perspective, if I had to choose between:

1) Melvin and his contract and 2) giving up Teheran for Span

I would choose option 1. Neither choices are great with the benefit of hindsight.

[yeezus]

Looking at it from the Braves perspective, if I had to choose between:

1) Melvin and his contract and 2) giving up Teheran for Span

I would choose option 1. Neither choices are great with the benefit of hindsight.

It's a little different IMO because Meyer is still in the minors whereas Teheran was closer to the majors (as is in his 2nd full season, pitching very well).

[gilesfan]

Looking at it from the Braves perspective, if I had to choose between:

1) Melvin and his contract and 2) giving up Teheran for Span

I would choose option 1. Neither choices are great with the benefit of hindsight.

Teheran was a far better prospect than Meyer, despite what the rankings may or may not have said. Plus, he was essentially ML ready. Probably would have cost the Braves someone like Sims maybe.

Part of the issue with BeeJ is that now we are stuck with that contract and having to have him on the roster.

[nsacpi]

Teheran was a far better prospect than Meyer, despite what the rankings may or may not have said. Plus, he was essentially ML ready. Probably would have cost the Braves someone like Sims maybe.

Part of the issue with BeeJ is that now we are stuck with that contract and having to have him on the roster.

You have to remember that at the time Teheran was coming off a pretty poor AAA season. At any rate, he was the only one of our prospects ranked higher than Meyer than offseason, and it wasn't much of a difference in their rankings. #44 versus #59 on BA's list.

[gilesfan]

You have to remember that at the time Teheran was coming off a pretty poor AAA season. At any rate, he was the only one of our prospects ranked higher than Meyer than offseason, and it wasn't much of a difference in their rankings. #44 versus #59 on BA's list.

That's bc you are going off BA rankings that will give upside way too much of a benefit of the doubt. Teheran was 20 or 21 on the steps of the ML and many services considered him the top pitching prospect. Meyer was a tall guy with a high upside if he can harness his control and stay at starter.