Page 7 of 13 FirstFirst ... 56789 ... LastLast
Results 121 to 140 of 246

Thread: Braves in on Yasmany Tomas

  1. #121
    It's OVER 5,000! yeezus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    8,108
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1,501
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1,720
    Thanked in
    1,122 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Metaphysicist View Post
    Jenkins was not the AFL MVP. The only pitcher to ever win the award was Tommy Hanson.
    And Shelby Miller is not a TOR pitcher.

  2. #122
    It's OVER 5,000! Tapate50's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    24,263
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    9,058
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    5,693
    Thanked in
    3,881 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by yeezus View Post
    And Shelby Miller is not a TOR pitcher.
    Hmmmm
    Ivermectin Man

  3. #123
    It's OVER 5,000! yeezus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    8,108
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1,501
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1,720
    Thanked in
    1,122 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Tapate50 View Post
    Hmmmm
    Could he be? Sure. He is definitely not right now, wasn't last year, and that's not really debatable.

  4. #124
    It's OVER 5,000! Tapate50's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    24,263
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    9,058
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    5,693
    Thanked in
    3,881 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by yeezus View Post
    Could he be? Sure. He is definitely not right now, wasn't last year, and that's not really debatable.
    He absolutely was in the second half, and was all the year before... So 3/4 of his career be has pitched like an absolute TOR starter. I guess you just like seeing the glass half empty ?
    Ivermectin Man

  5. The Following User Says Thank You to Tapate50 For This Useful Post:

    BedellBrave (11-24-2014)

  6. #125
    Sabermetric Slut
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Your Mom's Basement
    Posts
    29,669
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1,721
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    8,744
    Thanked in
    5,837 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Tapate50 View Post
    He absolutely was in the second half, and was all the year before... So 3/4 of his career be has pitched like an absolute TOR starter. I guess you just like seeing the glass half empty ?
    Super low BABIP. It won't continue and you know it.

  7. #126
    It's OVER 5,000! Tapate50's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    24,263
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    9,058
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    5,693
    Thanked in
    3,881 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by thewupk View Post
    Super low BABIP. It won't continue and you know it.
    I know one thing: It happened. Couldn't that be a correction for the first half?

    Regardless of why, it happened. That performance is in the books. Can't change it or asterisk it. Its done.
    Ivermectin Man

  8. #127
    Not Actually Brian Hunter Metaphysicist's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    2,641
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1,547
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1,645
    Thanked in
    878 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Tapate50 View Post
    He absolutely was in the second half, and was all the year before... So 3/4 of his career be has pitched like an absolute TOR starter. I guess you just like seeing the glass half empty ?
    Ah, the good ol' Horrible Ratios* Defense. "If you ignore the times when he is bad, he is amazing!"

    I actually have high hopes for Miller, so I wouldn't argue against him having a lot of potential. But... that's potential. If he'd actually pitched 3/4 of his career thus far like an ace, he'd have a career FIP under 4.00.

    *Happy Birthday Horacio!

  9. The Following User Says Thank You to Metaphysicist For This Useful Post:

    Hawk (11-24-2014)

  10. #128
    Sabermetric Slut
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Your Mom's Basement
    Posts
    29,669
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1,721
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    8,744
    Thanked in
    5,837 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Tapate50 View Post
    I know one thing: It happened. Couldn't that be a correction for the first half?

    Regardless of why, it happened. That performance is in the books. Can't change it or asterisk it. Its done.
    It doesn't work that way. Miller has to improve in several areas before his 4 FIP is considered TOR.

  11. #129
    Co-Owner, BravesCenter
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    10,516
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    4,345
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    4,305
    Thanked in
    2,446 Posts
    FIP and BABIP are critical factors in determining whether or not a pitcher is TOR quality? Would have never looked at those numbers with any real weight.

  12. #130
    It's OVER 5,000! Tapate50's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    24,263
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    9,058
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    5,693
    Thanked in
    3,881 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by thewupk View Post
    It doesn't work that way. Miller has to improve in several areas before his 4 FIP is considered TOR.
    His stellar second half is booked. No changing that. It happened. He was a legit TOR guy after the ASB after using a sinker.
    He stumbled out of the gate in a sophmore season after a great rookie year. Not really anything crazy about that.
    Ivermectin Man

  13. #131
    Sabermetric Slut
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Your Mom's Basement
    Posts
    29,669
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1,721
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    8,744
    Thanked in
    5,837 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Tapate50 View Post
    His stellar second half is booked. No changing that. It happened. He was a legit TOR guy after the ASB after using a sinker.
    He stumbled out of the gate in a sophmore season after a great rookie year. Not really anything crazy about that.
    Yes it is fact. Just like Chris Johnson's awesome season in 2013 is a fact. Doesn't mean we should expect his super high BABIP to continue. Guess what? It didn't. Players can buck the trend with BABIP for a season. It happens quite often. But continuing to do that? Well that doesn't happen. Miller will not have a BABIP in the low 200's in 2015. If he wants an ERA that's not in the upper 3's or low 4's he's going to need to improve his K rate and BB rate.

  14. #132
    Vencer a Los Doyers GovClintonTyree's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Lake Hartwell
    Posts
    4,888
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1,841
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1,645
    Thanked in
    1,029 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by thewupk View Post
    Yes it is fact. Just like Chris Johnson's awesome season in 2013 is a fact. Doesn't mean we should expect his super high BABIP to continue. Guess what? It didn't. Players can buck the trend with BABIP for a season. It happens quite often. But continuing to do that? Well that doesn't happen. Miller will not have a BABIP in the low 200's in 2015. If he wants an ERA that's not in the upper 3's or low 4's he's going to need to improve his K rate and BB rate.
    Or maybe he learned a sinker from Justin Masterson and learned how to get ground ball outs, which gives statheads the illusion of less dominance but what it really represents is a pitcher maturing and figuring it out.

    Tim Hudson was sinker heavy with ratios that belied his effectiveness.

    You can't just look at the statistics. You have to watch the games.

  15. The Following User Says Thank You to GovClintonTyree For This Useful Post:

    Hawk (11-24-2014)

  16. #133
    Sabermetric Slut
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Your Mom's Basement
    Posts
    29,669
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1,721
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    8,744
    Thanked in
    5,837 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by GovClintonTyree View Post
    Or maybe he learned a sinker from Justin Masterson and learned how to get ground ball outs, which gives statheads the illusion of less dominance but what it really represents is a pitcher maturing and figuring it out.

    Tim Hudson was sinker heavy with ratios that belied his effectiveness.

    You can't just look at the statistics. You have to watch the games.
    Hudson has a career 280 BABIP. A far cry from .210. And his career era is about .30 below his career FIP. Not that big of a deal. Not like a 3.00 ERA and a 4.10 FIP. That kind of differnece doesn't happen year after year. It's been proven.

  17. #134
    Co-Owner, BravesCenter
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    10,516
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    4,345
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    4,305
    Thanked in
    2,446 Posts
    The (missed) point is that Miller's 63 career Major League starts (beginning at age 21) are hardly empirical.
    Last edited by Hawk; 11-24-2014 at 10:20 AM.

  18. #135
    NL Rookie of the Year
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    2,467
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    19
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    756
    Thanked in
    512 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by GovClintonTyree View Post
    Or maybe he learned a sinker from Justin Masterson and learned how to get ground ball outs, which gives statheads the illusion of less dominance but what it really represents is a pitcher maturing and figuring it out.

    Tim Hudson was sinker heavy with ratios that belied his effectiveness.

    You can't just look at the statistics. You have to watch the games.
    Stop confusing us with good arguments.

  19. #136
    Anytime Now Frankie...
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    1,668
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1,324
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    765
    Thanked in
    445 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk View Post
    The (missed) point is that Miller's 63 career Major League starts (beginning at age 21) are hardly empirical.
    Thank you.

    It's funny how many posters will argue that Jason Heyward can still become a consistent .800 plus OPS guy with 30 HR power because he's only 25, yet believe Miller has hit his ceiling at age 24 with only two seasons under his belt. When you argue for one of those points you contradict the other.

    For the record I think both players have their best baseball in front of them. Tremendous upside for both guys.

  20. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to DirkPiggler For This Useful Post:

    clvclv (11-24-2014), Prikichi (11-26-2014)

  21. #137
    Sabermetric Slut
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Your Mom's Basement
    Posts
    29,669
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1,721
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    8,744
    Thanked in
    5,837 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by DirkPiggler View Post
    Thank you.

    It's funny how many posters will argue that Jason Heyward can still become a consistent .800 plus OPS guy with 30 HR power because he's only 25, yet believe Miller has hit his ceiling at age 24 with only two seasons under his belt. When you argue for one of those points you contradict the other.

    For the record I think both players have their best baseball in front of them. Tremendous upside for both guys.
    Miller does have upside. But those that think he is a TOR right now because of a 2nd half with a super low BABIP are wrong. He has a ways to go to be that guy.

  22. #138
    NL Rookie of the Year
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    2,467
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    19
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    756
    Thanked in
    512 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by thewupk View Post
    Miller does have upside. But those that think he is a TOR right now because of a 2nd half with a super low BABIP are wrong. He has a ways to go to be that guy.
    Perhaps I'm late to the party, but i think the word is "POTENTIAL." Conversely, we've been talking potential with JHey for years as well. A point was made that Miller was as highly thought of as Teheran and to have them both is a good thing. I guess the painful point for most will just be what we gave up to get him.

  23. The Following User Says Thank You to Deester11 For This Useful Post:

    clvclv (11-24-2014)

  24. #139
    10 yr, $185 million Extension
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    4,760
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    4
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    981
    Thanked in
    766 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by thewupk View Post
    Miller does have upside. But those that think he is a TOR right now because of a 2nd half with a super low BABIP are wrong. He has a ways to go to be that guy.
    You can't just look at a number.

    I have no idea if Miller is a TOR guy or will be. But there are multiple evaluators who have said that he changed his approach. More CB, sinker, etc.

    You keep screaming BABIP. That works if the guy pitches the same way with different results. In this case the guy make changes. Obviously luck could have made those changes more impactful that they really were. We are talking really low sample size here.

  25. The Following User Says Thank You to Russ2dollas For This Useful Post:

    Hawk (11-24-2014)

  26. #140
    Fredi Gonzalez Supporter Dalyn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Your mom
    Posts
    14,077
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    6,446
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    5,802
    Thanked in
    3,408 Posts
    I think Miller is going to mature into a solid #2 by 2017, and I guess that is the point of this trade. Just have to hope that the rest of the pieces come together in time.

  27. The Following User Says Thank You to Dalyn For This Useful Post:

    clvclv (11-24-2014)

Similar Threads

  1. tomas
    By bravesfanforlife88 in forum 2023: Celebrating Our 10th Year Here
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 04-08-2015, 10:13 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •