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Thread: The 2018 Midterms

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    Expects Yuge Games nsacpi's Avatar
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    the issue here is not free speech...all sorts of jobs involve restrictions about what employees can say or not say...no one raises free speech over these restrictions

    the issue here is PRONOUNS

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    You seem to think that if you're not being put in prison, then your speech is not impacted.

    The reality is more and more you have to walk on egg shells as to what you can say these days... the only thing safe must be SJW approved.

    As crackpot Ron Paul used to say... we dont have the first amendment so we can discuss the weather. We have it so we can say controversial things.

    The first amendment is near meaningless if speech platforms dont respect it. While it's TRUE nobody is going to jail, people are being silenced on large platform bc their speech offends... anyone

    It's perfectly legal and it's their right, but its not a good thing for a society that wants to encourage free speech to be increasingly limiting it.

    Sorry for having such a controversial opinion

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    why did you choose to put this in a thread about the past election ?

    To prove the point people (you) can say what they like regardless ... just regardless

    your "opinion" isnt as much controversial as confrontational. For the simple sake of creating controversy
    The best way to stop a bad guy with a gun is to make sure he doesn’t get a gun.

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    Expects Yuge Games nsacpi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smoltzie29 View Post
    You seem to think that if you're not being put in prison, then your speech is not impacted.

    The reality is more and more you have to walk on egg shells as to what you can say these days... the only thing safe must be SJW approved.

    As crackpot Ron Paul used to say... we dont have the first amendment so we can discuss the weather. We have it so we can say controversial things.

    The first amendment is near meaningless if speech platforms dont respect it. While it's TRUE nobody is going to jail, people are being silenced on large platform bc their speech offends... anyone

    It's perfectly legal and it's their right, but its not a good thing for a society that wants to encourage free speech to be increasingly limiting it.

    Sorry for having such a controversial opinion
    the guy can go to GAB if he needs a speech platform or come here to chop country...the waters fine

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    I really dont want to **** all over someone with a Smoltz username. Please dont make me do it.
    "Donald Trump will serve a second term as president of the United States.

    It’s over."


    Little Thethe Nov 19, 2020.

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    There probably isn't a stronger advocate for transgender rights on this board than me and while I can sympathize with the teacher in question, is it really that hard to go along with the student's wishes in this case. If it isn't truly affecting his effectiveness as a teacher, what is the big issue? This isn't life-or-death.

    At the same time, I do think that members of the transgender community do need to grow a somewhat thicker skin. One can demand and should receive respect, but that does not necessarily include approval. There were probably unexplored options here that the district could have pursued, but not knowing the specifics of the school district (size, course requirements, etc.) it is difficult to discern what they might be.

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    A Chip Off the Old Rock Julio3000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smoltzie29 View Post
    He didn't misgender.

    He just decided he wasn't going to say something that he didn't believe was true.

    I'm not sure why that's controversial... one would think that's admirable.

    But our society today is one I admittedly am having trouble understanding.

    It's weird enough to me that a 9th grader is having gender reassignment surgey, when we know the suicide rate is astronomical for these people yet we seem to encourage people to do it.

    Then we have to tell a teacher to ignore everything he has been taught to accommodate this one specific student... forcing him to use language.

    Then we come here to argue about pronouns bc that's the society we have now.

    Anyhow, I understand what side youre on, just not sure why.
    Hm, I remember discussing the suicide thing pretty comprehensively. I guess you don’t. One thing I remember from that discussion is a positive correlation in MH outcomes when tg individuals are supported in their identification.

    I’m not really moved by the continued emphasis on the point of “he didn’t misgender, he simply refused to use pronouns.” That strikes me as a distinction without a difference. The intent is quite clear. And I don’t think that sticking to one’s beliefs is an unequivocal positive, to be celebrated in every case. That’s the kind of thinking that would have us kissing Confederate ass a century-and-a-half later. I don’t think that Kim Davis or Roy Moore’s using their personal beliefs as an excuse to neglect to fulfill their official duties—in a way that is explicitly discriminatory—is particularly something to celebrate, but ymmv. You think that your personal view of pronouns is an immutable law of nature and, apparently, a keystone to the republic. Aight, man. Carry on. I think it’s a weird place to flex, but ok.

  8. #668
    Expects Yuge Games nsacpi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 50PoundHead View Post
    There probably isn't a stronger advocate for transgender rights on this board than me and while I can sympathize with the teacher in question, is it really that hard to go along with the student's wishes in this case. If it isn't truly affecting his effectiveness as a teacher, what is the big issue? This isn't life-or-death.

    At the same time, I do think that members of the transgender community do need to grow a somewhat thicker skin. One can demand and should receive respect, but that does not necessarily include approval. There were probably unexplored options here that the district could have pursued, but not knowing the specifics of the school district (size, course requirements, etc.) it is difficult to discern what they might be.
    dont think they was an option

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    Quote Originally Posted by Julio3000 View Post
    Hm, I remember discussing the suicide thing pretty comprehensively. I guess you don’t. One thing I remember from that discussion is a positive correlation in MH outcomes when tg individuals are supported in their identification.

    I’m not really moved by the continued emphasis on the point of “he didn’t misgender, he simply refused to use pronouns.” That strikes me as a distinction without a difference. The intent is quite clear. And I don’t think that sticking to one’s beliefs is an unequivocal positive, to be celebrated in every case. That’s the kind of thinking that would have us kissing Confederate ass a century-and-a-half later. I don’t think that Kim Davis or Roy Moore’s using their personal beliefs as an excuse to neglect to fulfill their official duties—in a way that is explicitly discriminatory—is particularly something to celebrate, but ymmv. You think that your personal view of pronouns is an immutable law of nature and, apparently, a keystone to the republic. Aight, man. Carry on. I think it’s a weird place to flex, but ok.
    The difference between this guy and Kim Davis is this guy was doing his job. He wasn't refusing to educate the kid. He wasn't disrespectful to the kid. I'd be interested in learning why you think this teacher withholding a verbal pronoun is "explicitly discriminatory" and how this kid was denied the service because of it.

    He avoided using pronouns because he doesn't think a girl should be referred to as "he"

    I again remind you that a person was fired from the state over pronouns.
    Last edited by sturg33; 12-10-2018 at 09:09 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nsacpi View Post
    the guy can go to GAB if he needs a speech platform or come here to chop country...the waters fine
    Sure he can.

    But you may have noticed the conservatives who used to post here (thethe, weso, hawk, jaw) rarely if ever do now. I'd imagine their views haven't changed much, but they sure don't feel it's worth it to bother making arguments with the left these on this board. I gotta admit, I get tired of it too.

    A good example is my company. I'm smart enough to keep my mouth shut on forced diversity and inclusion initiatives, women's pay gap talking points, and the fact that Trump's policies has bee relatively benign. It's their right, of course. But I find it kind of sad that probably 30-45% of the company doesn't feel comfortable to verbally say their - frankly non-controversial opinions that are backed in data and reason.

    The culture has effectively silenced folks like me and like-minded individuals. If I speak up, I won't go to prison. My first amendment right isn't in danger. But I would suffer consequences for simply holding a viewpoint that the liberal ideology doesn't agree with. I know this for a fact as a colleague "decided to leave" after asking a (reasonable question) during an all-hands event about meeting diversity quotas. We know this when we saw the individual from google getting fired for asking a similar question in a respectful manner.

    How much does this ideology value and respect speech if they are willing to thwart any opposing viewpoint? How is that healthy for advancing free speech and open dialogue in this country if the biggest companies in the world don't respect it? Now, the largest speech platforms in the world like Twitter, Facebook, and Youtube are banning speech at an alarming level... the offenders always seeming to be outside of the SJW groupthink ideology

    As I said, the first amendment doesn't mean too much if the society we live in doesn't respect and defend it.

    Anyhow, I'll quit my ranting on this subject. Feel free to make your snarky remark in response rather than have a thoughtful dialogue on the point, and we'll move on.

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    It's OVER 5,000! 57Brave's Avatar
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    Quit acting like people are tired of being shouted down as if they arent given their say.

    Their arguements simply don't hold water

  12. #672
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    Quote Originally Posted by sturg33 View Post
    Anyhow, I'll quit my ranting on this subject. Feel free to make your snarky remark in response rather than have a thoughtful dialogue on the point, and we'll move on.
    You finally have a like-minded poster here in smoltzie29 who shares similar beliefs as you that you can tag-team with, and now you're going to just abandon the discussion like that and leave him/her alone to debate with the board wolves aka the lioness left? Have you lost your mind?
    Forever Fredi


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    If I didn't have kids I would post more on this board. Has nothing to do with the posters. I've never felt that I can't say what I want on this forum. Any controversial opinion I've had has been met with scrutiny, which I welcome. But when I am in a tough debate with multiple people it can over take my thoughts and that's not what I want with kids around.

    Also, I actually think free speech is in a good place in this country. Voices I would have never heard in the past can more easily be heard from both the left and the right.
    thank you weso1!

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    50PoundHead (12-11-2018)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Individual-1 View Post
    You finally have a like-minded poster here in smoltzie29 who shares similar beliefs as you that you can tag-team with, and now you're going to just abandon the discussion like that and leave him/her alone to debate with the board wolves aka the lioness left? Have you lost your mind?
    He seems like a smart kid. He'll be alright

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    Quote Originally Posted by weso1 View Post
    If I didn't have kids I would post more on this board. Has nothing to do with the posters. I've never felt that I can't say what I want on this forum. Any controversial opinion I've had has been met with scrutiny, which I welcome. But when I am in a tough debate with multiple people it can over take my thoughts and that's not what I want with kids around.

    Also, I actually think free speech is in a good place in this country. Voices I would have never heard in the past can more easily be heard from both the left and the right.
    So sturg, I noticed you went ahead and spoke for others like weso a few posts above this, and he politely contradicts what you have been ranting about.

    But you don't spend anytime responding to his post, just continue playing the lone dissenting voice in an echo chamber victim card.
    Forever Fredi


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    Quote Originally Posted by Individual-1 View Post
    So sturg, I noticed you went ahead and spoke for others like weso a few posts above this, and he politely contradicts what you have been ranting about.

    But you don't spend anytime responding to his post, just continue playing the lone dissenting voice in an echo chamber victim card.
    That's true.

    I've chatted with thethe privately about it. Jaw had indicated similar issues in his posts. But unfair of me to project to others.

    Happy to admit when I'm wrong when evidence shows as much.

    I also didn't mean to imply that anyone was "Scared" of posters... just that the topics anyone is willing to engage on has been reduced to the same crab over and over (Russia), and anyone who tries anything else is a "trumpohilic" or a "fox news listener" (at best), but usually just a racist.
    Last edited by sturg33; 12-10-2018 at 11:53 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Individual-1 View Post
    So sturg, I noticed you went ahead and spoke for others like weso a few posts above this, and he politely contradicts what you have been ranting about.

    But you don't spend anytime responding to his post, just continue playing the lone dissenting voice in an echo chamber victim card.
    I will also say that this is a left leaning forum and while I truly believe it's a forum that's open to conversation it's more challenging for posters like sturg. Sturg has made great points in the past and present and I really respect his opinion.
    thank you weso1!

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    Quote Originally Posted by sturg33 View Post
    That's true.

    I've chatted with thethe privately about it. Jaw had indicated similar issues in his posts. But unfair of me to project to others.

    Happy to admit when I'm wrong when evidence shows as much.

    I also didn't mean to imply that anyone was "Scared" of posters... just that the topics anyone is willing to engage on has been reduced to the same crab over and over (Russia), and anyone who tries anything else is a "trumpohilic" or a "fox news listener" (at best), but usually just a racist.
    I remain curious why you came into a thread about the MidTerms -which are still being contested - to talk about yet another aggrieved white male. Or jsut another white male stuck in a time warp

    Why didnt you start a thread about a fired contrarian ?
    In the recent past I have started threads about Climate, the California Fires, Flint Michigan and numerous others. In some never got response in others only my own . because?
    People didnt want to talk about it.
    Something about the marketplace speaking
    But seems like everything you want to talk about eventually comes around to you .
    You




    yesterday I saw a trash pile containing a Stacy Abrams yard sign , was occupied driving and couldnt stop. would have made an iconic photo
    The best way to stop a bad guy with a gun is to make sure he doesn’t get a gun.

  20. #679
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    Oh, one more thing --- Trump/Russia are main points of conversation because -- well, in the ~250 years of USA this has never happened (yes, unprecedented)
    where a sitting US President is being accused of
    a) rigging an election
    b) conspiring with an age long adversary to rig said election
    c) blatant dollars and cents corruption
    d) caught red handed a,b,c

    I will project here
    Something tells me you want to change the subject because your guy ( and your entire political mindset if you will ) is being taken to task

    Now, can we get the conversation back to it's intended issue ?
    Last edited by 57Brave; 12-11-2018 at 07:17 AM.
    The best way to stop a bad guy with a gun is to make sure he doesn’t get a gun.

  21. #680
    Expects Yuge Games nsacpi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sturg33 View Post
    Sure he can.

    But you may have noticed the conservatives who used to post here (thethe, weso, hawk, jaw) rarely if ever do now. I'd imagine their views haven't changed much, but they sure don't feel it's worth it to bother making arguments with the left these on this board. I gotta admit, I get tired of it too.

    A good example is my company. I'm smart enough to keep my mouth shut on forced diversity and inclusion initiatives, women's pay gap talking points, and the fact that Trump's policies has bee relatively benign. It's their right, of course. But I find it kind of sad that probably 30-45% of the company doesn't feel comfortable to verbally say their - frankly non-controversial opinions that are backed in data and reason.

    The culture has effectively silenced folks like me and like-minded individuals. If I speak up, I won't go to prison. My first amendment right isn't in danger. But I would suffer consequences for simply holding a viewpoint that the liberal ideology doesn't agree with. I know this for a fact as a colleague "decided to leave" after asking a (reasonable question) during an all-hands event about meeting diversity quotas. We know this when we saw the individual from google getting fired for asking a similar question in a respectful manner.

    How much does this ideology value and respect speech if they are willing to thwart any opposing viewpoint? How is that healthy for advancing free speech and open dialogue in this country if the biggest companies in the world don't respect it? Now, the largest speech platforms in the world like Twitter, Facebook, and Youtube are banning speech at an alarming level... the offenders always seeming to be outside of the SJW groupthink ideology

    As I said, the first amendment doesn't mean too much if the society we live in doesn't respect and defend it.

    Anyhow, I'll quit my ranting on this subject. Feel free to make your snarky remark in response rather than have a thoughtful dialogue on the point, and we'll move on.
    I'm a conservative and I post here without discomfort

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