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Thread: The Trump Presidency

  1. #1841
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    That was the GOP plan.

    I think it needs to be pointed out every day what a despicable human being we allowed the nuclear codes and to be the face of our nation.
    We have given him a chance and he appointed (just one example) a segregationist to run the DOJ that oversee civil rights complaints.
    If that isn't a big FU I am the Prime Minister of Australia
    He should get the respect he gives

    Hawk, your advocating appeasement.
    Last edited by 57Brave; 02-05-2017 at 12:36 PM.
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  2. #1842
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    The best way to stop a bad guy with a gun is to make sure he doesn’t get a gun.

  3. #1843
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    Quote Originally Posted by Julio3000 View Post
    Should we have sent Putin a fruit basket after the annexation of Crimea?
    Why not? We created the instability in the Ukraine which allowed Putin to waltz in to begin with.

  4. #1844
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    Quote Originally Posted by 57Brave View Post
    Hawk, your advocating appeasement.
    No, I'm not, but I am telling you that if you expect your animus to gain any kind of meaningful traction beyond the comfortable circles you reside in you should choose better battles ... instead of ones which have already been fought (and won).
    Last edited by Hawk; 02-05-2017 at 12:47 PM.

  5. #1845
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk View Post
    Why not? We created the instability in the Ukraine which allowed Putin to waltz in to begin with.
    Created it. That's a pretty big reach.

  6. #1846
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk View Post
    At some point - if it hasn't happened already - most people are likely to stop considering every word, action, or tweet, emanating from DJT as an apocalyptic flare or example of gross misconduct.

    That's the danger of crying wolf too early and too often.
    That's a good point. Kinda tangential to what I'm talking about, though, which is people spinning some combination of poor discipline, poor character, and poor leadership into the idea that the man at the helm is a chessboxing black-belt who's employing some brilliant negotiation strategy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Julio3000 View Post
    Created it. That's a pretty big reach.
    Do you believe the overthrow of Yanukovych was a naturally occurring phenomenon?

  8. #1848
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk View Post
    Do you believe the overthrow of Yanukovych was a naturally occurring phenomenon?
    It was certainly favored by the US. The degree that it was sponsored by the US is subject to debate. Again, I repeat: "Created." Did Yanukovych's overthrow create the instability in Ukraine?

  9. #1849
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    Quote Originally Posted by Julio3000 View Post
    That's a good point. Kinda tangential to what I'm talking about, though, which is people spinning some combination of poor discipline, poor character, and poor leadership into the idea that the man at the helm is a chessboxing black-belt who's employing some brilliant negotiation strategy.
    I don't see it as brilliant, but I do see it as unconventional.

    We've given Trump a sword to fall on. If you believe he's well on the way to doing just that, then wouldn't the smarter route be to let him do it on his own instead of forcing him upon in? If we're creating controversy where there is none then we're giving him the perfect defense. Catch the man with his pants down instead of desperately trying to pull them off. The 'so-called judge' quip is a perfect example. It was classic Trump - in a mode of operation we litigated long ago - but some are treating the comment like it was somehow more sinister than inappropriate. In the court of the common man it reads as unjust persecution and so, for every 'win' that Trump scores against that tide, it helps establish him as a kind of relentless anti-hero.
    Last edited by Hawk; 02-05-2017 at 01:44 PM.

  10. #1850
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk View Post
    I don't see it as brilliant, but I do see it as unconventional.

    We've given Trump a sword to fall on. If you believe he's well on the way to doing just that, then wouldn't the smarter route be to let him do it on his own instead of forcing him upon in? If we're creating controversy where there is none then we're giving him the perfect defense. Catch the man with his pants down instead of desperately trying to pull them off. The 'so-called judge' quip is a perfect example. It was classic Trump - in a mode of operation we litigated long ago - but some are treating the comment like it was somehow more sinister than inappropriate. In the court of the common man it reads as unjust persecution and for every 'win' that Trump scores it helps establish him as a kind of relentless anti-hero.
    I think that's a pretty solid read.
    Last edited by Julio3000; 02-05-2017 at 01:41 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Julio3000 View Post
    Again, I repeat: "Created." Did Yanukovych's overthrow create the instability in Ukraine?
    It created the particular instability which allowed Putin to annex Crimea, certainly.

    But let's not pretend the Ukraine circa 2014 wasn't a proxy war between the US, EU, and Russia. And let's not pretend that Russia didn't win.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk View Post
    It created the particular instability which allowed Putin to annex Crimea, certainly.

    But let's not pretend the Ukraine circa 2014 wasn't a proxy war between the US, EU, and Russia. And let's not pretend that Russia didn't win.
    I agree with the larger point, though I quibble with that terminiology. But, sure.

    Trying to stick to the point, though...whatever our involvement in 2014, it did not create the instability in Ukraine.

    ...which was a sidelight comment to the main thrust, which was why on earth should we kiss Putin's ass at the expense of what you call our "friends"?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Julio3000 View Post
    Trying to stick to the point, though...whatever our involvement in 2014, it did not create the instability in Ukraine.

    ...which was a sidelight comment to the main thrust, which was why on earth should we kiss Putin's ass at the expense of what you call our "friends"?
    Ukraine has been a cauldron of unrest since it went indy. I never said we created the general state of instability, but that we "created the instability in the Ukraine which allowed Putin to waltz in." This being the Orange Revolution.

    My earlier comment was simply poking fun at the friend/enemy dynamic (as though Russia is some big, bad red devil).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk View Post

    Truth be told, you want your news media to be "hard to figure" and not blatantly partisan (like the NYT).
    True, like Fox or MSNBC.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk View Post
    Ukraine has been a cauldron of unrest since it went indy. I never said we created the general state of instability, but that we "created the instability in the Ukraine which allowed Putin to waltz in." This being the Orange Revolution.

    My earlier comment was simply poking fun at the friend/enemy dynamic (as though Russia is some big, bad red devil).
    I have a pretty distinct aversion to the Big Scary Bad Guy school of foreign policy manipulation...whether the putative bad guy is Russia, China, the old USSR, or "Radical Islamic Terrorists."

    If you think I'm engaging in it, you're reading a LOT into my comment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk View Post
    No, I'm not, but I am telling you that if you expect your animus to gain any kind of meaningful traction beyond the comfortable circles you reside in you should choose better battles ... instead of ones which have already been fought (and won).
    I certainly hope you don't think I am trying to convince or convert you.
    Rather think of it as a dog owner whose favorite dog just soiled his rug and finds it necessary to rub his nose in it.
    I really don't care about gaining "meaningful traction "
    whatever that is or with who ?
    (whom?? )
    Last edited by 57Brave; 02-05-2017 at 04:16 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk View Post
    At some point - if it hasn't happened already - most people are likely to stop considering every word, action, or tweet, emanating from DJT as an apocalyptic flare or example of gross misconduct.

    That's the danger of crying wolf too early and too often.
    Was told not to take all his bull**** serious before he was elected

    And now am being told, what are you bitching about? He's doing what he said

    The goal posts keep getting moved
    "For there is always light, if only we are brave enough to see it. If only we are brave enough to be it." Amanda Gorman

    "When Fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross"

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    LOLGOP ‏@LOLGOP 7m7 minutes ago

    LOLGOP Retweeted Elon Musk

    Advise him to step down if he can't protect the country without torching the Constitution. Fascism won't be good for the electric car market
    The best way to stop a bad guy with a gun is to make sure he doesn’t get a gun.

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    So ironic for the left to be screaming about fascism right now. Complete lack of self awareness.

  22. #1860
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    Quote Originally Posted by thethe View Post
    So ironic for the left to be screaming about fascism right now. Complete lack of self awareness.
    Why is that?

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