Prospect digest 10 prospect listing

[bravesfanMatt]

I am still very high on wisler and touki. I like our kimbrell trade. Margot is nice get. I would need to look back at the other three guys from the soxs. I am not convinced however that we wouldn't have found 10 million somewhere if BJ was still around and that trade presented itself. But still not upset with the trades I still think Wisler will be a #3 by next year.

[CJ9]

I'm certainly not as high on this rebuild as a lot of people. Coppy should get more heat for the Kimbrel trade than he does though. I still can't believe we used him to unload BJ's salary when we weren't even planning on competing for a handful of years after that. What was the hurry to unload that salary? That's inexcusable to me.

I also do wish the focus was more on position players. We still have serious questions about the next few years at third, catcher and probably even both corner outfield spots. That shouldn't be the case when we've traded so many valuable pieces.

[smootness]

Right, and if they convert those assets into players that produce MLB value, they will have succeeded.

However, as of now, nothing other than the gift from the DBacks has produced anything. The stated goal was to compete by 2017, and the trades made to achieve that goal have largely failed.

Additionally, none of the non-DBacks prospects acquired have increased in value other than perhaps Fried. The list of prospects recently acquired via trade whose value has substantially deteriorated is extensive. I won't bother listing them all, but Newcomb, Jenkins, Blair, Touki, etc, etc, have all lost a lot of the value they held before being acquired by the Braves. Notice a trend? They are all pitchers, which is what the Braves have decided to focus on.

So no, I would not call this rebuild a resounding success, nor would I say Coppy is doing a wonderful job. His piloting of this rebuild is mediocre, at best. I'm pretty sure any other GM could have done just as well, or better, given the same set of circumstances.

No one could argue our trades were all made with the goal of competing in 2017. The Upton deal clearly wasn't.

And Touki's value has absolutely not decreased since that trade.

[smootness]

I'm certainly not as high on this rebuild as a lot of people. Coppy should get more heat for the Kimbrel trade than he does though. I still can't believe we used him to unload BJ's salary when we weren't even planning on competing for a handful of years after that. What was the hurry to unload that salary? That's inexcusable to me.

I also do wish the focus was more on position players. We still have serious questions about the next few years at third, catcher and probably even both corner outfield spots. That shouldn't be the case when we've traded so many valuable pieces.

How many times does it have to be said that the money saved in that deal was used to acquire other talent?

[thewupk]

How many times does it have to be said that the money saved in that deal was used to acquire other talent?

It was used to pay for Markakis. We owed like 45 million left on Melvin's deal and had signed Nick for 44 million. People can spin it all they want but those two are essentially a wash as far as money goes.

[Enscheff]

Why are hitters more valuable than pitchers?

We have referenced the analysis several times that shows position prospects produce more MLB value than equally ranked pitching prospects.

[Tapate50]

Really enjoyed this write up. Good site

[thethe]

I'm certainly not as high on this rebuild as a lot of people. Coppy should get more heat for the Kimbrel trade than he does though. I still can't believe we used him to unload BJ's salary when we weren't even planning on competing for a handful of years after that. What was the hurry to unload that salary? That's inexcusable to me.

I also do wish the focus was more on position players. We still have serious questions about the next few years at third, catcher and probably even both corner outfield spots. That shouldn't be the case when we've traded so many valuable pieces.

What we're the valueable commodities that we had again?

[thethe]

It was used to pay for Markakis. We owed like 45 million left on Melvin's deal and had signed Nick for 44 million. People can spin it all they want but those two are essentially a wash as far as money goes.

The money traded from the Heyward/Upton deals allowed us to invest money in Markakis.

[thethe]

We have referenced the analysis several times that shows position prospects produce more MLB value than equally ranked pitching prospects.

All I'm seeing is pitchers getting traded for unbelievable amounts of players. Eaton who had incredible value was traded for two pitchers, one of which has seen his value plummet in a year.

[thewupk]

The money traded from the Heyward/Upton deals allowed us to invest money in Markakis.

People say that the money saved from Melvin allowed us to get Touki and other players. We simply could have not signed Markakis and used the said money to acquire those players. And still get better players by not attaching Melvin to Kimbrel. It's not a hard concept to follow. It was a poor trade in shedding payroll when we had no need to do so since we weren't competing for a few years.

[thethe]

People say that the money saved from Melvin allowed us to get Touki and other players. We simply could have not signed Markakis and used the said money to acquire those players. And still get better players by not attaching Melvin to Kimbrel. It's not a hard concept to follow. It was a poor trade in shedding payroll when we had no need to do so since we weren't competing for a few years.

There was no way they were just going to tear it down to that level after all those trades. This isnt video game baseball. Fan sentiment is an important factor in any strategy. Especially a fan base as fickle as Atlantas.

[TheBravos]

People say that the money saved from Melvin allowed us to get Touki and other players. We simply could have not signed Markakis and used the said money to acquire those players. And still get better players by not attaching Melvin to Kimbrel. It's not a hard concept to follow. It was a poor trade in shedding payroll when we had no need to do so since we weren't competing for a few years.

Yep...people talk about what suckers the Dbacks were, but we essentially did the same thing in the Kimbrel trade, except we traded the best closer in the game (at the time), instead of a prospect to shed cash.

[thewupk]

There was no way they were just going to tear it down to that level after all those trades. This isnt video game baseball. Fan sentiment is an important factor in any strategy. Especially a fan base as fickle as Atlantas.

So Markakis was to appease fan sentiment? He is a meh player that they paid market value for at 1 year more than they should have. He absolutely does nothing to inspire the fan base. That offseason there were promises to contend in 2017 to open the new ballpark. The moves that were made indicated that was the original plan and then it shortly changed gears afterwards. Pretty much everything after the HO trade.

Some have worked and some have not. But it was a dumb decision to attach Melvin to Kimbrel.

[TheBravos]

There was no way they were just going to tear it down to that level after all those trades. This isnt video game baseball. Fan sentiment is an important factor in any strategy. Especially a fan base as fickle as Atlantas.

If you're not first you're last 😂

[TheBravos]

We have referenced the analysis several times that shows position prospects produce more MLB value than equally ranked pitching prospects.

That is correct, because pitching prospects fail at a higher rate. BUT established MLB pitchers are a different animal. A #1 or #2 starter under team control will bring manna from heaven.

IF and that's a big if, the Braves hit on some of these leftys.... look out.

You are correct that building with pitching brings much higher risk, but is also higher reward. We could also fail miserably. As long as we're somewhere in between, the rebuild should be a success.

[bravesfanMatt]

If you could pick one player to start your team. Who would it be. Kershaw or trout. Money would be same.

[thewupk]

If you could pick one player to start your team. Who would it be. Kershaw or trout. Money would be same.

Besides the obvious of Trout being younger and better it's going to the hitter in these scenarios because you expect pitchers to get hurt at some point.

[Preacher]

It all depends on how much credit you give Coppy for Stewart making a terrible deal. Given all his other moves, I think Coppy was just lucky to be the beneficiary of Stewart making a bad deal. Right place, right time.

If you blow up a team, fleece the dumbest GM in the game for Swanson and Inciarte, and then pick at the top of the draft, you better have a Top 5 system in the game. I think any competent GM would have done similarly well.

A good GM would have acquired assets that have increased in value since their acquisition. A good GM would have realized rebuilding teams don't need to free up money for non-competitive years by attaching BJ to Kimbrel. A good GM would understand position players are more valuable than pitching prospects, and would build the sys

Its ridiculous to just throw out Coppy's deal as 'luck' when every other team in baseball could have traded with Stewart and fleeced him, Coppy was the one to do it. If you're going to throw out his best moments, then you might as well throw out his worst as well.

Bottom line, Coppy parlayed Heyward into Shelby, then had the intelligence to deal Shelby at the perfect time and found a team that wanted to go for it all and was willing to pay a big price for a pitcher.

You also have to give credit to Coppy and the entire scouting department for planning this international blitz years in advance and striking deals with Maitan +++++.

Has Coppy been perfect? No, but he's done a great job rebuilding this system and not all of it is because he traded away the veterans.

[thethe]

That is correct, because pitching prospects fail at a higher rate. BUT established MLB pitchers are a different animal. A #1 or #2 starter under team control will bring manna from heaven.

IF and that's a big if, the Braves hit on some of these leftys.... look out.

You are correct that building with pitching brings much higher risk, but is also higher reward. We could also fail miserably. As long as we're somewhere in between, the rebuild should be a success.

THe fact that pitchers bust at such a high rate makes it even more logical to stack the deck with pitchers like the Braves have. We are not the Cubs who can afford to pay a TOR on the FA market.