Page 28 of 88 FirstFirst ... 1826272829303878 ... LastLast
Results 541 to 560 of 1755

Thread: Star Wars Discussion Thread (Spoilers Inside)

  1. #541
    Connoisseur of Minors zitothebrave's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    DANGERZONE
    Posts
    24,622
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1,428
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    3,432
    Thanked in
    2,463 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Forever Fredi View Post
    Luke tossing the lightsaber was one of the stupidest things I've ever seen.

    Takes the seriousness of the end of The Force Awakens and poops all over it. But zeets like you said, the movie had "tons of great writing in it".
    Hardly. It sets the tone for theme of the movie. Let the past die, kill it if you must. Luke wasn't gonna be wielding a lightsaber or flying his xwing. He rejected Anakin's lightsaber and sunk his XWing years ago.
    Stockholm, more densely populated than NYC - sturg

  2. #542
    Connoisseur of Minors zitothebrave's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    DANGERZONE
    Posts
    24,622
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1,428
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    3,432
    Thanked in
    2,463 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Forever Fredi View Post
    Luke is not a coward. 4-6 he did everything he could to bring Vader to the light, going so much as willing to die if Anakin could be brought back. The never quit, never give up mentality was thrown away in Episode 8. He was afraid of the Darkness in Ben. He was 30 years older, 30 years wiser, 30 years stronger, 30 years more in tune with the Force. Yet, he just pretty much said welp, Snoke twisted Ben's mind. I'm his Uncle but there's nothing I can do about it so might as well quit and slaughter my own nephew in his sleep?
    Most of what you say is 100% wrong. Luke wasn't 30 more years in tune with the force. He severed his ties to the force on Ach To. He says in the film that his hubris lead to the creation of Kylo Ren so he went in excile, similar to Obi Wan Kenobi and Yoda after Yoda failed to kill the Emperor and after Obi Wan failed Anakin. It's very much in line with what happened to other jedi and directly contradicts your line about it conflicting with other films. As far as the thought about killing him, that was a very Skywalker thing to do. The balance Anakin was supposed to bring to the force was the ability to control the dark and the light which means that he has dark thoughts. He never was Obi Wan or Yoda, and he wasn't supposed to be, the same with Luke .The difference between Luke and Vader is while he dabbles in the dark, he never fully turns. THink about the final battle with Vader. He succumbs mid battle to fighting Vader after Vader senses Leia so Luke rages out and destroys Vader in a fit of rage disarming him (literally) and Luke then stops before fully turning to the dark side. The same thing he did with Ben. He saw the dark side and out of fear the dark side rose, before the light rose up to meet it and he stopped. To me it's a very Skywalker thing to do.



    Quote Originally Posted by Forever Fredi View Post
    You mean he didn't consult Force Ghost Yoda or Force Ghost Kenobi or even Force Ghost Anakin to share his feelings and thoughts on Ben's mind being twisted? He took it upon himself to just end Ben's life right then and there?
    To quote Han Solo, "That's not how the Force works" When has a force ghost ever been summoned? Come on be smarter.

    Quote Originally Posted by Forever Fredi View Post
    I understand now why Hamill has publicly said in the last year he strongly disagreed with Rian's writing and vision for Luke, because Hamill knows Luke better than anyone and his character was essentially wasted.
    Hamill had a different view of Luke, he fleshed it out with Johnson. And by most accounts he's happy with the direction it took, because he realizes that Luke isn't something he owns, it's something he's a part of and Star Wars is bigger than him, or Lucas.


    Quote Originally Posted by Forever Fredi View Post
    And let's not even talk about the forced humor that is cringeworthy and ruins serious moments in the movie. That has Disney written all over it. Because it's the same forced humor that's put in Marvel movies and other studios are doing it now too because they feel it's the trendy thing to do. It's insulting to the audience and fans when you have a serious scene that is supposed to carry emotional weight and then you insert Comedian Luke Skywalker to make the crowd laugh just because.
    Give me examples. Because most of the humor aside from the Porgs flying arond the ship was a pretty poignant response. If you watch the OT there's lots of moments like this. Leia being rescued by Luke "Aren't you short for a Stormtrooper" and countless other examples.
    Stockholm, more densely populated than NYC - sturg

  3. #543
    Connoisseur of Minors zitothebrave's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    DANGERZONE
    Posts
    24,622
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1,428
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    3,432
    Thanked in
    2,463 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Forever Fredi View Post
    Zeets it's pointless in arguing with you. It's been well documented on here how much you trash the prequels and think so lowly of Lucas when it favors your argument.
    I wanted to address this in a different post. Lucas is a brillaint idea man but a bad director and writer.

    THink about it this way, Natalie Portman, Oscar Winning actress. Did you see that from her performance in Star Wars? Jake Lloyd and Hayden Christensen effectively left the film business. McGregor has had a decent post Star Wars career but he's about the only person to come out of the prequels looking good.
    Stockholm, more densely populated than NYC - sturg

  4. #544
    Fredi Gonzalez Supporter Dalyn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Your mom
    Posts
    14,077
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    6,446
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    5,802
    Thanked in
    3,408 Posts
    Total waste of Snoke AND Phasma. Hard for me to shake that. Would've been much better if Snoke would've had to fight them both while keeping Kylo from calling the saber to him (thus cutting Snoke in half). The injury from the attack would weakened him enough for them to win, but barely. THAT would've been a cool scene and not a waste and would've conveyed how powerful he was. They just ****ed Phasma up from the beginning, so I have no suggestions there other than to read the book, I guess.

  5. #545
    Fredi Gonzalez Supporter Dalyn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Your mom
    Posts
    14,077
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    6,446
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    5,802
    Thanked in
    3,408 Posts
    Really liked Kylo in this one. That was the strength of the film.

  6. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Dalyn For This Useful Post:

    The Chosen One (12-17-2017), zitothebrave (12-17-2017)

  7. #546
    Very Flirtatious, but Doubts What Love Is. jpx7's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    11,903
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    47,591
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    6,441
    Thanked in
    3,830 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Dalyn View Post
    Total waste of Snoke AND Phasma. Hard for me to shake that. Would've been much better if Snoke would've had to fight them both while keeping Kylo from calling the saber to him (thus cutting Snoke in half). The injury from the attack would weakened him enough for them to win, but barely. THAT would've been a cool scene and not a waste and would've conveyed how powerful he was. They just ****ed Phasma up from the beginning, so I have no suggestions there other than to read the book, I guess.
    I think the "waste", at least with Snoke, comes from the sequel-trilogy's seeming desire to destabilize, disrupt, or outright defy our expectations. A big fancy high-stakes-but-not-really battle would've been just what the sci-fi operatic action narrative called for—so the film actively resists it.

    I'm not sure yet how I feel about this new sequel (which I saw on Friday night). I know it wasn't the fun nostalgia-bomb that was The Force Awakens' setting-the-ground narrative, but two of those would've probably been boring; I know I'm apt to trust Rian Johnson, based on his other work; and I know this new film is difficult in a good way, which hasn't really been true—as much as I love the original trilogy—of any film outside Empire (which is its best part, though not its most fun—that's A New Hope, for sure). Overall, I guess I'm reserving judgment until I see where the final film goes—but it is quite exciting, if also nostalgically sad, to see them try to blow up all the rules to forge forward. And there's something to be said for critiquing the idea that the Hero, the Jedi, the Good and Ordered Faith somehow has a monopoly on the Force, or on Star Wars, or on stories in general.
    "For all his tattooings he was on the whole a clean, comely looking cannibal."

  8. #547
    Connoisseur of Minors zitothebrave's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    DANGERZONE
    Posts
    24,622
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1,428
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    3,432
    Thanked in
    2,463 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Dalyn View Post
    Total waste of Snoke AND Phasma. Hard for me to shake that. Would've been much better if Snoke would've had to fight them both while keeping Kylo from calling the saber to him (thus cutting Snoke in half). The injury from the attack would weakened him enough for them to win, but barely. THAT would've been a cool scene and not a waste and would've conveyed how powerful he was. They just ****ed Phasma up from the beginning, so I have no suggestions there other than to read the book, I guess.
    Personally, I don't think it's a waste of Snoke. I think the idea of Kylo Ren being in charge of the first order is exciting. Personally after reading people obsession over who SNoke was, I'm glad he died. He went out in the same general way as the Emperor, and he did it in his first film on screen. The difference is the order of films. In Ep5 emperor was known as Vader's master but only scene in hologram (same as Ep7) in Ep8 he's in his throne room on his capital ship about to see the end of the rebellion when his hubris leads to him missing his apprentice turning on him (same as Ep8) the difference is that Vader turns to the light and dies. Kylo kills Snoke to seize power. There's that glimmer of hope until you turn and see him approach the throne. It is a brilliant parallel with a stark contrast.

    Phasma I've always felt was kind of supposed to be a Boba Fett Type. Someone that wasn't supposed to do too much on screen, just be very recognizable and menacing. I also think there's a very real chance she could still be alive. Her suit could survive a blaster bolt so theoretically it could survive a fall into flames like that.
    Stockholm, more densely populated than NYC - sturg

  9. #548
    Fredi Gonzalez Supporter Dalyn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Your mom
    Posts
    14,077
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    6,446
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    5,802
    Thanked in
    3,408 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by jpx7 View Post
    I think the "waste", at least with Snoke, comes from the sequel-trilogy's seeming desire to destabilize, disrupt, or outright defy our expectations. A big fancy high-stakes-but-not-really battle would've been just what the sci-fi operatic action narrative called for—so the film actively resists it.

    I'm not sure yet how I feel about this new sequel (which I saw on Friday night). I know it wasn't the fun nostalgia-bomb that was The Force Awakens' setting-the-ground narrative, but two of those would've probably been boring; I know I'm apt to trust Rian Johnson, based on his other work; and I know this new film is difficult in a good way, which hasn't really been true—as much as I love the original trilogy—of any film outside Empire (which is its best part, though not its most fun—that's A New Hope, for sure). Overall, I guess I'm reserving judgment until I see where the final film goes—but it is quite exciting, if also nostalgically sad, to see them try to blow up all the rules to forge forward. And there's something to be said for critiquing the idea that the Hero, the Jedi, the Good and Ordered Faith somehow has a monopoly on the Force, or on Star Wars, or on stories in general.
    The taking risks part of the film is definitely to be lauded with something this iconic, but some of the risks worked and some did not. You want to do what isn't expected? That would've been Rey joining Kylo and damned if that scene didn't call for it. It felt wrong for her to walk away. And the Snoke scene still had that battle you're talking about, just not with Snoke.

  10. #549
    Fredi Gonzalez Supporter Dalyn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Your mom
    Posts
    14,077
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    6,446
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    5,802
    Thanked in
    3,408 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by zitothebrave View Post
    Personally, I don't think it's a waste of Snoke. I think the idea of Kylo Ren being in charge of the first order is exciting. Personally after reading people obsession over who SNoke was, I'm glad he died. He went out in the same general way as the Emperor, and he did it in his first film on screen. The difference is the order of films. In Ep5 emperor was known as Vader's master but only scene in hologram (same as Ep7) in Ep8 he's in his throne room on his capital ship about to see the end of the rebellion when his hubris leads to him missing his apprentice turning on him (same as Ep8) the difference is that Vader turns to the light and dies. Kylo kills Snoke to seize power. There's that glimmer of hope until you turn and see him approach the throne. It is a brilliant parallel with a stark contrast.

    Phasma I've always felt was kind of supposed to be a Boba Fett Type. Someone that wasn't supposed to do too much on screen, just be very recognizable and menacing. I also think there's a very real chance she could still be alive. Her suit could survive a blaster bolt so theoretically it could survive a fall into flames like that.
    Snoke dying was not the waste. I completely agree with him dying in that scene.

  11. #550
    Connoisseur of Minors zitothebrave's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    DANGERZONE
    Posts
    24,622
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1,428
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    3,432
    Thanked in
    2,463 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by jpx7 View Post
    And there's something to be said for critiquing the idea that the Hero, the Jedi, the Good and Ordered Faith somehow has a monopoly on the Force, or on Star Wars, or on stories in general.
    the thing is that The Clone Wars/prequels more or less already blew this up. As anyone could have the force, and plenty fell out of the Jedi's grasp. What this does is blow up the idea of midichlorians and imply that how many midichlorians you possess doesn't really matter. It took the force back into the religious mysticism of the OT and away from the Scientology realm of Episode 1.
    Stockholm, more densely populated than NYC - sturg

  12. #551
    Very Flirtatious, but Doubts What Love Is. jpx7's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    11,903
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    47,591
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    6,441
    Thanked in
    3,830 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Dalyn View Post
    The taking risks part of the film is definitely to be lauded with something this iconic, but some of the risks worked and some did not. You want to do what isn't expected? That would've been Rey joining Kylo and damned if that scene didn't call for it. It felt wrong for her to walk away. And the Snoke scene still had that battle you're talking about, just not with Snoke.
    I don't disagree, which is why I said both that I'm reserving judgment of this film, in large part, until I see how it works with the final sequel, and also that I'm still not sure how I feel about this new sequel, irrespective of its subsequent film.
    "For all his tattooings he was on the whole a clean, comely looking cannibal."

  13. The Following User Says Thank You to jpx7 For This Useful Post:

    Dalyn (12-17-2017)

  14. #552
    Fredi Gonzalez Supporter Dalyn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Your mom
    Posts
    14,077
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    6,446
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    5,802
    Thanked in
    3,408 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by jpx7 View Post
    I don't disagree, which is why I said both that I'm reserving judgment of this film, in large part, until I see how it works with the final sequel, and also that I'm still not sure how I feel about this new sequel, irrespective of its subsequent film.
    I'm in the same boat. I walked away liking it, and I woke up not liking it at all, and now I'm torn. There were aspects that I found excellent, but some really terrible parts, too.

  15. #553
    Very Flirtatious, but Doubts What Love Is. jpx7's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    11,903
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    47,591
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    6,441
    Thanked in
    3,830 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by zitothebrave View Post
    the thing is that The Clone Wars/prequels more or less already blew this up. As anyone could have the force, and plenty fell out of the Jedi's grasp. What this does is blow up the idea of midichlorians and imply that how many midichlorians you possess doesn't really matter. It took the force back into the religious mysticism of the OT and away from the Scientology realm of Episode 1.
    Not really sure the prequels did so effectively—but I'm like you that I take a pretty damn dim view of those prequel films.

    I haven't seen any of the Clone Wars stuff.
    "For all his tattooings he was on the whole a clean, comely looking cannibal."

  16. #554
    Connoisseur of Minors zitothebrave's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    DANGERZONE
    Posts
    24,622
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1,428
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    3,432
    Thanked in
    2,463 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Dalyn View Post
    Snoke dying was not the waste. I completely agree with him dying in that scene.
    FWIW, I think we're gonna be getting a kickass Snoke novel or comic coming. There will be something to truly explain the rise of the First order. They just finished the Aftermath trilogy about the end of the Empire, so I imagine they'll have something more about Snoke and the first order. With Aftermath and THrawn they're exploring deeper portions of space which is where the First Order comes from.
    Stockholm, more densely populated than NYC - sturg

  17. The Following User Says Thank You to zitothebrave For This Useful Post:

    Dalyn (12-17-2017)

  18. #555
    Very Flirtatious, but Doubts What Love Is. jpx7's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    11,903
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    47,591
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    6,441
    Thanked in
    3,830 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Dalyn View Post
    I'm in the same boat. I walked away liking it, and I woke up not liking it at all, and now I'm torn. There were aspects that I found excellent, but some really terrible parts, too.
    Pretty much the exact same boat—except, for me, I walked away not loving it, then awakened reappraising it.
    "For all his tattooings he was on the whole a clean, comely looking cannibal."

  19. #556
    Connoisseur of Minors zitothebrave's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    DANGERZONE
    Posts
    24,622
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1,428
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    3,432
    Thanked in
    2,463 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by jpx7 View Post
    Not really sure the prequels did so effectively—but I'm like you that I take a pretty damn dim view of those prequel films.

    I haven't seen any of the Clone Wars stuff.
    It's a long watch as it's like 115 episodes or something like that. I didn't get started with it until it hit Netflix, but it's quite brilliant. There are some bad parts but it makes you actually care about Anakin and makes his fall to the darkside more believable and explains why people in the republic loved him so.
    Stockholm, more densely populated than NYC - sturg

  20. #557
    Connoisseur of Minors zitothebrave's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    DANGERZONE
    Posts
    24,622
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1,428
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    3,432
    Thanked in
    2,463 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by jpx7 View Post
    Pretty much the exact same boat—except, for me, I walked away not loving it, then awakened reappraising it.
    I recommend a second viewing. One thing I came away after knowing all the things is that Yoda's speech to luke is a 4th wall breaking speech to fans. Cause you realize that Rey has thte books, the books being saved isn't necessary.
    Stockholm, more densely populated than NYC - sturg

  21. #558
    Fredi Gonzalez Supporter Dalyn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Your mom
    Posts
    14,077
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    6,446
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    5,802
    Thanked in
    3,408 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by jpx7 View Post
    Pretty much the exact same boat—except, for me, I walked away not loving it, then awakened reappraising it.


    Maybe I just wanted to watch Snoke fight both of them while skewered by a lightsaber.

    Oh, also...the Yoda scene was so dumb.

  22. #559
    Very Flirtatious, but Doubts What Love Is. jpx7's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    11,903
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    47,591
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    6,441
    Thanked in
    3,830 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by zitothebrave View Post
    I recommend a second viewing. One thing I came away after knowing all the things is that Yoda's speech to luke is a 4th wall breaking speech to fans. Cause you realize that Rey has thte books, the books being saved isn't necessary.
    I didn't need a second viewing to figure that out, tbh. Honestly, the whole project of The Last Jedi has a Brechtian air about it, very purposefully trying to alienate its audience to productive ends.
    "For all his tattooings he was on the whole a clean, comely looking cannibal."

  23. The Following User Says Thank You to jpx7 For This Useful Post:

    Dalyn (12-17-2017)

  24. #560
    Connoisseur of Minors zitothebrave's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    DANGERZONE
    Posts
    24,622
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1,428
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    3,432
    Thanked in
    2,463 Posts
    I don't think it was there to alienate it's audience. I think it was there to alienate the expectations of tropes. The expectation of nostalgic necessity as well. It sets up the Future of Star Wars back to it's mystic Space Opera roots. I don't think it alienates fans because for me it really pushes you to connect better with Finn. Finn sees the world through the eyes of someone else for the first time. Finn has always been selfish, he was always thinking about his own means. First it was escaping the first order. He was connected to poe because Poe was his way out. Then he similarly became connected to Rey in a crush manner. Rey was not much more to him than that someone he wanted to pursue romantically. He instead gets shocked out of that via Rose. After some time Rose and him go on a mission, again it was primarily selfish, even though Rose was the one who figured it out, when explaining it to Poe he steps in and cuts Rose off, because he was being selfish. They go to Canto Bight and he loves the place and doesn't realize the harshness until Rose points out the rough spots and he actually gets to see it himself. He then becomes so involved that he's willing to die, only for Rose to bring him back and tell him to stop fighting what you hate but for what you love. (see below) I think Rey not being a chosen one is very relatable. I think Rey is what Luke in episode 4 and first half of episode 5 was. A nobody who is set out on her own and learns the force from someone who doesn't want to train them. Poe is Han Solo but with a **** ton of repercussions for his brash actions. All of them are more real than the OT characters in a lot of ways.

    To address for what it's worth, I really think the line from Rose about fight for what you love instead of fighting what you hate kind of summarizes EP8's relationships to the previous films. It isn't about fghting the parts of star wars that suck (midichlorians etc.) but instead embracing what makes Star Wars great, which is that it's a mystical space Opera.
    Stockholm, more densely populated than NYC - sturg

Similar Threads

  1. Great Star Wars 7 news
    By Krgrecw in forum Fulton County Fire & BBQ
    Replies: 50
    Last Post: 12-25-2019, 11:51 AM
  2. General Music Discussion Thread
    By zitothebrave in forum Fulton County Fire & BBQ
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 07-10-2018, 09:43 PM
  3. 2017 NFL Draft Discussion Thread
    By CrimsonCowboy in forum Fulton County Fire & BBQ
    Replies: 48
    Last Post: 04-30-2017, 06:33 PM
  4. 2016 NFL Draft Discussion Thread
    By CrimsonCowboy in forum Fulton County Fire & BBQ
    Replies: 133
    Last Post: 05-21-2016, 09:37 PM
  5. Star Wars movies schedule leak... Including a movie no one saw coming
    By Krgrecw in forum Fulton County Fire & BBQ
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 05-20-2014, 07:58 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •