The Trump Presidency

[thethe]

or anyone that ever thought / favored Trump and / or a (R) Congress
You are welcome to take it personally if you like

Can you please explain the negatives of this switch and balance it with less taxes on the same class of people?

[57Brave]

I'm fine with paying the taxes now because I don't plan on bring in a lower tax bracket when I retire. Tax me on less of my gross earnigs now and I'll figure out ways to make my money grow at a rate that is higher than the lost money due to the present value of what the 401k was previously taxed under.

Either way you're paying the tax on your retirement savings. Just a matter of when.

The old saw of everyone is right around the corner from the 1 %.
Gotcha

As I rapidly approach retirement the tax will come out of interested monies. Rather than paying the tax out of my pocket'
As it is the tax in a round about way pays for itself

[57Brave]

This is in effect tax hike on the middle class
But you knew that

[thethe]

This is in effect tax hike on the middle class
But you knew that

The tax is always paid. It's a matter of when it's paid. Coupled with the increased standard deduction it's a net win for middle class.

How much do you think the average middle class person invests in their 401k?

[57Brave]

Of course it is paid. But if you are being taxed to invest that is an out of pocket expense.

If you are being taxed 20-30 years down the road the interest absorbs the tax
Believe me, it is a right now reality in my house.

Hard to believe you favor such a scheme

[acesfull86]

The tax is always paid. It's a matter of when it's paid. Coupled with the increased standard deduction it's a net win for middle class.

How much do you think the average middle class person invests in their 401k?

Average person? Not enough. I don't see how this rule helps.

Another funding solution would be if the party allegedly for less government spending actually cut government spending.

[57Brave]

or raised revenues on those not having to mortgage their next 10 years to build an addition to the house

or spending the cash to put braces on the kids teeth on taxes that can be paid later with interested monies

or buying a car to replace a 10-15 year old.

This is a horrible idea
On so may levels
.............................

The 1% are the 1% not by accident.
Few are lottery winners

[thethe]

Of course it is paid. But if you are being taxed to invest that is an out of pocket expense.

If you are being taxed 20-30 years down the road the interest absorbs the tax
Believe me, it is a right now reality in my house.

Hard to believe you favor such a scheme

I understand exactly how this worKS bUT again. How much does the average middle class blue collar worker invest in their 401k per year?

[thethe]

Average person? Not enough. I don't see how this rule helps.

Another funding solution would be if the party allegedly for less government spending actually cut government spending.

Spending cuts are a thing of the past sadly. Nobody is able to risk the poitical fallout from the MSM if you cut spending aside from the military.

The average person is not materially impacted by this change. If you make 75k and invest 6% of your earnings that is 4500. Therefore, 2100 is subject to tax at your respective tiered rates. Now add back in the increased standard deduction and you are in the positive in terms of tax savings.

This change more impacts people that make 100k-250k.

[57Brave]

you tell me -- I am not making our argument for you.

If you have a point make it

[thethe]

you tell me -- I am not making our argument for you.

If you have a point make it

You have no point because you don't understand the economics of the tax code. You actually believe this impacts the people making 50k more than 250k which is scary.

[57Brave]

People making 50K can less afford the out of pocket tax than the your $250 example.

$1000 is more to ones making $50K than $20K is to those making $250


Relative to income
yes it does impact the lower bracket more

In the end , for the $50K person and the $250K person ---- it is a tax hike on the middle class
.........................

So you paying out of your pocket taxes so Trump/Kochs/Mercers etal can lower theirs.
that seems the intent.
No, that is the intent

[thethe]

People making 50K can less afford the out of pocket tax than the your $250 example.

$1000 is more to ones making $50K than $20K is to those making $250


Relative to income
yes it does impact the lower bracket more

In the end , for the $50K person and the $250K person ---- it is a tax hike on the middle class

But the 50k person is going to see a drastic reduction in their tax obligation because of other provisions. This is really a tax increase on those making 100k or more.

[57Brave]

what other provisions.

My understanding is the bill isn't even written yet

[57Brave]

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/20/u...tax-401-k.html

WASHINGTON — House Republicans are considering a plan to sharply reduce the amount of income American workers can save in tax-deferred retirement accounts as part of a broad effort to rewrite the tax code, according to lobbyists, tax consultants and congressional Democrats.

It is unclear if Republicans will ultimately include a cap on contributions in the tax bill that they are expected to release in the coming weeks. Such a move would almost certainly prompt a vocal backlash from middle-class workers who save heavily in such retirement accounts and from the asset management industry.

The proposals under discussion would potentially cap the annual amount workers can set aside to as low as $2,400 for 401(k) accounts, several lobbyists and consultants said on Friday. Workers may currently put up to $18,000 a year in 401(k) accounts without paying taxes upfront on that money; that figure rises to $24,000 for workers over 50.

This is ace's introduction to the topic.
So what off sets are you talking about ?

American worker I don't think they are talking about $250K earners.
Though yes it too impacts them.

How about people in Trumps range or , supposed range.
This would be a great opportunity for you and his apologists to see his tax returns to learn how much you, his voters will pay to finance his self purported
income and golden cammode

[thethe]

So you're comfortable talking about this which is not final but not about the increased standard deduction which is not final? Have some consistency man.

[57Brave]

I am not at all comfortable - actually it makes me crazy watching people willingly lose money to shell games.
Like I said, I am about ready to cash out so it won't effect me. Personally

This is a horrible idea

[sturg33]

I understand exactly how this worKS bUT again. How much does the average middle class blue collar worker invest in their 401k per year?

I put in $18K.

My employer buts in $10,500 of that.

I would not be happy about this change at all, UNLESS they allowed contributions to Roth IRAs to be increased (currently capped at $5,500, but you can;'t contribute if you make more than $118K - which is bull****).

[thethe]

This is ace's introduction to the topic.
So what off sets are you talking about ?

American worker I don't think they are talking about $250K earners.
Though yes it too impacts them.

How about people in Trumps range or , supposed range.
This would be a great opportunity for you and his apologists to see his tax returns to learn how much you, his voters will pay to finance his self purported
income and golden cammode

It's not even comparable. This tax hike is directed at those making 100k or more. I'm sorry you don't see it.

[sturg33]

Funny seeing 57 though complaining about tax increases... when he's been begging for more revenue for years