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Thread: Brandon Taubman

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    Even ignoring basic morality, making your employer look like **** in a very public way has always been a quick way to get fired.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Super View Post
    what if we do a terrible thing and create a world where there's more respect and care given to each other? wouldn't that just be awful? i don't want to live in that world. i want men to be able to do and say whatever they want, whenever they want, without having to regard other people at all.
    all I wanted to see was for Taubman to be a mensch and own up to what he did...still waiting btw
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    Quote Originally Posted by nsacpi View Post
    all I wanted to see was for Taubman to be a mensch and own up to what he did...still waiting btw
    not owning up to your **** behavior is a trend these days.
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    asking me to admit i did something wrong is offensive.
    "Well, you’ll learn soon enough that this was a massive red wave landslide." - thethe on the 2020 election that trump lost bigly

    “I can’t fix my life, but I can fix the world.” - sturg

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    This is a pretty cut and dried issue. Taubman is a moron who couldn't shut his mouth for one night and felt like he just had to rub it into these female journalists' faces. I think anyone can understand his temptation to do that; I'm sure he knew they were opening themselves up to some backlash when they signed Osuna, he hated that the domestic violence was brought up over and over by the same people, and so he vented in a really dumb and hurtful way in what he felt was a moment of some sort of vindication.

    He should have owned up to it and apologized, and the Astros should have acknowledged it from the beginning. I definitely don't see it as a mistake clearly worthy of being fired, but that is the Astros' call to make, and they made it. I don't think anyone should have demanded he be fired, and I don't think anyone should be upset that he ultimately was.
    "Acuna is getting lucky, just like CJ did when he batted .321 and won a batting title. He is unlikely to get lucky at the MLB level over an extended period of time. He will settle in around .300-.320 just like everyone else, and when he does, he won't be within shouting distance of the 1.000 OPS he is posting in AAA...more like low .700s in 2018." -Enscheff 8/25/17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Super View Post
    lol god forbid we start demanding that everyone be treated with respect in the workplace. these days are so rough! can't even target, yell at, and cuss at female reporters anymore.

    you can stay in your old times, little man.
    I don't agree with Coredor in the sense that this was a bad incident and one that he probably needed to be fired for. Obviously encouraging respect and politeness in the workplace is a good thing. But I do think that Coredor has a point in the sense that the public shaming machine is a pretty terrible thing and can have long lasting impacts on a person's psyche.

    If you make a mistake like this, you should face consequences that are suitable for whatever mistake you made. Having literally millions of people on social media berate you, drag your name through the mud, and, in some ways, bully you is not proportional to this particular mistake. Not only does it severely harm future job prospects and your social life, but it can have serious psychology ramifications that can take years to heal.

    What he did was worse than what Justine Sacco did for sure, but the response to both of them was way out of proportion and its not hard to sympathize with them in that regard, while also maybe condemning what they have done (and I'm not condemning Justine for what she did. It wasn't that bad).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Super View Post
    what if we do a terrible thing and create a world where there's more respect and care given to each other? wouldn't that just be awful? i don't want to live in that world. i want men to be able to do and say whatever they want, whenever they want, without having to regard other people at all.
    If that were the actual outcome of situations like this then I'd be 100% with your sarcasm here. The fact is that this isn't the world we are creating. We are creating a world where forgiveness is an antiquated concept. Where people can't make mistakes without having their whole world come crumbling down around them. Where apologies only make things worse. Where the apology itself is heavily scrutinized.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nsacpi View Post
    all I wanted to see was for Taubman to be a mensch and own up to what he did...still waiting btw
    I mean, he did apologize. It may have been perceived as a weak apology, and maybe it was. But I'm not sure it would help if he came out and unequivocally apologized for the entire incident, accepting total responsibility. It may satisfy you personally, but my experience with the social media mob is that apologies aren't accepted and often just make things worse. Morally it might be the right thing to do. But strategically, the best option is often to double down on whatever you did. That's not right, but that is the world we are creating.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Super View Post
    not owning up to your **** behavior is a trend these days.
    See my post above for the reasons why this is. If owning up worked and it was possible to be forgiven, I promise you that more people would do it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BeanieAntics View Post
    I don't agree with Coredor in the sense that this was a bad incident and one that he probably needed to be fired for. Obviously encouraging respect and politeness in the workplace is a good thing. But I do think that Coredor has a point in the sense that the public shaming machine is a pretty terrible thing and can have long lasting impacts on a person's psyche.

    If you make a mistake like this, you should face consequences that are suitable for whatever mistake you made. Having literally millions of people on social media berate you, drag your name through the mud, and, in some ways, bully you is not proportional to this particular mistake. Not only does it severely harm future job prospects and your social life, but it can have serious psychology ramifications that can take years to heal.

    What he did was worse than what Justine Sacco did for sure, but the response to both of them was way out of proportion and its not hard to sympathize with them in that regard, while also maybe condemning what they have done (and I'm not condemning Justine for what she did. It wasn't that bad).
    what social media seems to do is compress the time available for reflection and atonement...in the pre-social media world Taubman would have had more time to own up to his actions and to make amends before facing the risk of losing his job
    "I am a victim, I will tell you. I am a victim."

    "I am your retribution."

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    Quote Originally Posted by smootness View Post
    This is a pretty cut and dried issue. Taubman is a moron who couldn't shut his mouth for one night and felt like he just had to rub it into these female journalists' faces. I think anyone can understand his temptation to do that; I'm sure he knew they were opening themselves up to some backlash when they signed Osuna, he hated that the domestic violence was brought up over and over by the same people, and so he vented in a really dumb and hurtful way in what he felt was a moment of some sort of vindication.

    He should have owned up to it and apologized, and the Astros should have acknowledged it from the beginning. I definitely don't see it as a mistake clearly worthy of being fired, but that is the Astros' call to make, and they made it. I don't think anyone should have demanded he be fired, and I don't think anyone should be upset that he ultimately was.
    Yeah this is pretty much my thought as well. I'm not bummed out that he was fired. He needed some sort of repercussions and this was probably suitable. But that should be it, it should be over and he should be allowed to move on with his life peacefully. If he chooses to continue being an asshole, I'm sure that there is someone out there who'll expose it so we can do this all over again. If he chooses to be better, then people should get off his back.

    Sometimes it honestly looks like twitter or reddit are advocating capital punishment for things like this. Some of the things said about this guy on there are beyond disgusting. In many ways, they are almost worse than what this guy did in the first place.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BeanieAntics View Post
    I mean, he did apologize. It may have been perceived as a weak apology, and maybe it was. But I'm not sure it would help if he came out and unequivocally apologized for the entire incident, accepting total responsibility. It may satisfy you personally, but my experience with the social media mob is that apologies aren't accepted and often just make things worse. Morally it might be the right thing to do. But strategically, the best option is often to double down on whatever you did. That's not right, but that is the world we are creating.
    I don't think I would call that an apology. It was more an evasion. But I have a jaundiced view of apologies in general. More often than not they serve as a means for perpetuating the behavior for which the apology is offered. In my book it is always better to engage in sincere reflection than to offer an apology. Of course if you can do both you should (keeping in mind that apologies mainly work to the benefit of the people offering them). In Taubman's situation though there was the practical reality that his job was at stake. So he needed to own up to his actions in a better way. Maybe he didn't realize that. Maybe he is incapable in his current state of doing it.
    Last edited by nsacpi; 10-25-2019 at 03:11 PM.
    "I am a victim, I will tell you. I am a victim."

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    imagine reading this story

    and your big take away/issue is social media

    lol
    "For there is always light, if only we are brave enough to see it. If only we are brave enough to be it." Amanda Gorman

    "When Fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross"

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    Quote Originally Posted by nsacpi View Post
    what social media seems to do is compress the time available for reflection and atonement...in the pre-social media world Taubman would have had more time to own up to his actions and to make amends before facing the risk of losing his job
    I agree, but it does a lot more than that. Like I said, it can be absolutely BRUTAL for the person on the receiving end of it. I've been on the receiving end of a relatively mild example twice.

    I'm an MLB The Show streamer/Youtuber and I've had people come after me for a thing I did and a thing I didn't do, but was accused of. A few years ago there was a mass perma-ban on MLB The Show because the developers thought that people were using a complicated exploit to give themselves an advantage. I was caught in the crossfire along with a couple other well known people in the community. I spent a day or two getting absolutely trashed by viewers and other community members for "cheating" the game, all the while trying to get unbanned because I didn't do anything at all. It was pretty scary, because I make a solid amount of side money off this that really helps out. Turns out, SDS had a malfunction in some of their software or something and that NOBODY had done anything wrong at all. I got one apology from the dozens of KYS-like messages that I received.

    The other time was a lot less severe and it stemmed from me letting the N-Word slip while jokingly singing Khia's "My Neck, My Back"... Most people thought it was funny, but I still felt the need to apologize. I didn't get any hate messages or anything like that until after I apologized. It wasn't anything crazy, but it was still really interesting to me that nobody said anything at all until they smelled blood in the water from my apology. I learned something from that and I rarely apologize for anything nowadays.

    These are two extremely mild cases relative to what goes on, mostly because my audience and social footprint is pretty small. But for more well known people or people that get thrust into the spotlight, its pretty crazy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nsacpi View Post
    I don't think I would call that an apology. It was more an evasion. But I have a jaundiced view of apologies in general. More often than not they serve as a means for perpetuating the behavior for which the apology is offered. In my book it is always better to engage in sincere reflection than to offer an apology. Of course if you can do both you should (keeping in mind that apologies mainly work to the benefit of the people offering them). In Taubman's situation though there was the practical reality that his job was at stake. So he needed to own up to his actions in a better way. Maybe he didn't realize that. Maybe he is incapable in his current state of doing it.
    I think almost everyone has a jaundiced view of apologies. And you're right that in many ways it wasn't a great apology. My point is that, hypothetically, if he had issued an incredibly sincere and heartfelt apology, it wouldn't have helped. He likely still would have been fired and the backlash wouldn't have subsided at all. See: Justine Sacco. The only thing that can really help someone like Taubman at this point is time. After some time has passed, people will move on to someone else and he'll be (mostly) out of the woods. But I doubt he'll ever be able to work in the public eye again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by goldfly View Post
    imagine reading this story

    and your big take away/issue is social media

    lol
    I've completely acknowledged that Taubman was wrong for what he did and deserved to be fired. But the social media mob is a serious issue that is really relevant to this story. Other than his firing, I'm not sure what people like you want from the man other than that? Does his firing not absolve the debt?

    Maybe we need to get your avatar and get him to imprison folks like this in La Cabana so he can issue summary judgements that lead to their eventual execution?

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    Quote Originally Posted by nsacpi View Post
    we should stop making them so angry...otherwise they might just snap
    don't make them angry and they won't hit ya

    he does it cause he loves ya though
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    Quote Originally Posted by goldfly View Post
    yelling "I'm so glad we got Osuna. So F.ucking glad we got him!!!!" at a female reporter who has written articles about domestic violence during a celebration for no reason other than to berate and intimidate is obvious

    he went out of his way to do so


    this guy should have been fired the next day

    and whomever put out saying the initial report was fake news should be fired too.
    Also don't forget that Osuna blew the save against the Yankees that game. If he'd come into the game in the 8th and put out a fire, then maybe some sort of logical argument for the comments can be made. But in came on in the 9th and gave up 2 runs to blow it. Then Taubman goes on his I'm glad we have him idiocy

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    "I am a victim, I will tell you. I am a victim."

    "I am your retribution."

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    Last edited by nsacpi; 10-25-2019 at 06:28 PM.
    "I am a victim, I will tell you. I am a victim."

    "I am your retribution."

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