Albies

[sturg33]

There is going out on a limb, and then there is diving off the top of a Redwood tree with no parachute. Clv typically falls in the latter category. Everyone says stuff they regret or makes claims that make them look dumb from time to time, it's when you do it over and over again and never learn from your mistakes that it become problematic I think.

Clv talks down to the statheads but posts **** like this all the time

[The Chosen One]

Nice to see all that swing analysis you used to do as a middle/high school student back in the day paid off.

Yep! That was definitely one of the memes back in the old Scout days. My obsession with Chipper's left-handed swing. Now I make a comfortable living coaching mechanics!

Granted, I do not coach baseball, I coach tennis. The thing is though, there are tons of crossover movements and mechanics between the two sports. A serve in tennis, is roughly the equivalent of an outfielder in baseball unloading on a throw to homeplate. One of the things I do actually when I coach juniors in tennis, I get their parents to buy a baseball glove for their dominant hand, not their non-dominant hand. I teach them how to properly throw a baseball before I teach them how to hit an overhead serve with a tennis racket. This way they can learn to properly turn, load back and transfer the weight and extend the arm on the throw. We play catch for a few weeks to build up arm strength then I go for teaching them a proper serve. The reason I make them purchase the glove for their throwing hand, is when you play tennis your racquet is always going to be in your dominant hand regardless. So tracking a ball from my hand to their glove is similar to them tracking the ball from my racquet to their dominant hand side. Hitting a forehand in tennis is very similar to a sidearm throw from an infielder. Hitting a two-handed backhand for a righty is almost the exact same as a a left-handed baseball swing (with two hands).

I actually wish I learned tennis before baseball. I didn't pick up Tennis until after I injured my shoulder playing baseball. Baseball will always be my first love, but if I learned tennis first I could have been a much better baseball player. All of the explosive lateral movements, core work, torso mechanics etc. would make you play defense like Andrelton Simmons. He's so good because he goes for efficiency (like sliding into a backhand grab then popping up to throw whereas most shortstops would scoop up the ball on the backhand side, keep their momentum going right while trying to throw across their body to first. The latter play while pretty, requires a more disproportionate mechanical chain compared to Tron sliding and popping up with his body momentum either neutral or going towards first. Andrelton's method is more sound mechanically which means less chance of getting injured).

[Prikichi]

Schoop's the man around here at the moment

[GovClintonTyree]

His timing right now is horrendous. It's not physical it's mental. His pitch recognition is still very good.

I'd first try to raise the back elbow in the stance-pre swing. Hands are too low right now. Hip turn is too soon, hip rotation is not aligned with his wrists at contact point, so the natural effect is him rolling over the top of the ball into a weak grounder, especially on pitches over the outer half of the plate. He keeps screwing the weight transfer. When your hips are exposed too soon you end up wasting the potential kinetic chain and you end up only using wrist or muscling the ball with arms. He exposes the hips so soon sometimes it also screws with his balance. For low pitches it's do or die. He either golfs it or rolls over. A bit more difficult to explain over words. Something I'm better physically demonstrating in person.

Right, right. I think he lets the ball get on him, it's too deep. I also think it's a result of his vulnerability to inside pitches, which dates back as early as I remember. He clears his hips early in order to reach low and in. Then his kinetic chain is broken and his core is gone. In tennis terms, he needs to take it out front.

Look at Albies. Everything out front. Now, some say (and will continue to say) he hits too many fly balls. Perhaps, but he's got a little uppercut and his hands are quick. Among the quickest I've seen. But his timing is excellent.

Heyward has had a rotational swing for some time now, and his arms are as long as some people's legs. If he's ever going to take the ball out front, he needs to take his hands directly to the ball, not out-and-around. That's why he seems so damn slow. Hands directly to the ball, then let the hips fire on their own. Really, he needs to trust his hands on the inside pitch. He doesn't because it takes too long to get there. Allies is almost the opposite. A small man better have clean mechanics to hit the ball with authority, and he does.

If Albies had Heyward's body, he'd be a 50-HR guy. If Heyward had Albies' mechanics, so would he.

[GovClintonTyree]

Oh no the reasoning is almost always defensive if B-R and FG come to different conclusions about position players. B-R uses DRS while FG uses UZR (I actually prefer UZR). That is definitely the reason why they differ on Ozzie. The only reason I noticed the difference was a twitter argument last night comparing Moncada and Ozzie's production so far lol

How will DRS and UZR be impacted by Statcast, if at all? Or is there a new defensive metric that will be borne of Statcast data?

[GovClintonTyree]

I think you covered it all in the first paragraph. The second paragraph imo is what's wrong with him. He appears to be trying to break every piece of his swing down to the point it has screwed him up.

The genius Cubs screwed him up. I believe they felt like they needed to make him a 30 hr guy to justify the 180 mil. I think he could become a league average hitter again with a different team.

He was struggling with this way before the Cubs got ahold of him. He really started losing his way after his rookie year.

And he shares some, probably the lion's share, of the blame for his struggles. He's a smart guy, analytical, and he's a tinkerer. He tinkered his way out of a really nice career.

He could get it back. He's young enough. But he needs a swing doctor - one swing doctor - to implement a philosophy that gets him back to good timing and kinetic chain. He's listened to too many people and his swing is just a train wreck at this point.

[clvclv]

Well, I don't agree with Clv on much of anything and at the time of the quoted post and now, I think the above proposal was not good, no real fit or goal, detrimental both short and long term. I will however take up for him a bit because at least he had the guts to put his thoughts out for all to see. Too many on this board appear to be willing to sit back and slam the posts and thoughts of others but not be willing to post and defend what they would do instead.

It's easy to be a permanent critic when you never open yourself to criticism.

So, yeah, dumb trade idea. But, good on Clv for being willing to go out on a limb.

Kinda the point of throwing crazy ideas out there - there's no "discussion" if somebody doesn't start somewhere. The list of folks here who fall into the "I told you so, but have never come up with an off-the-wall idea" category is longer than your arm. It's always funny to hear them criticize others. I probably wouldn't make 75% or more of the trades I've mentioned here if I were Coppy...of course, I'm not Coppy.

When there's discussion, jump in with ideas - otherwise continue to prove that you're a follower.

[Enscheff]

Kinda the point of throwing crazy ideas out there - there's no "discussion" if somebody doesn't start somewhere. The list of folks here who fall into the "I told you so, but have never come up with an off-the-wall idea" category is longer than your arm. It's always funny to hear them criticize others. I probably wouldn't make 75% or more of the trades I've mentioned here if I were Coppy...of course, I'm not Coppy.

When there's discussion, jump in with ideas - otherwise continue to prove that you're a follower.

There has been plenty of discussion around here that hasn't started out with a stupid idea.

As you descend further and further into strupidity, more and more members of the board are calling you out for being a know-nothing.

It's great entertainment. Please keep it up!

[jimsnores]

Back to discussion about Albies, I was listening to/watching TV today, and I think it was MLB, though it might not have been. They were slobbering like crazy over Devers, doing amazing things at 20. I am admittedly a Braves homer, but I found their discussion short-sighted in that they didn't mention how similarly he and Albies have performed. Their implication was that he was unique among twenty year-olds in the league. Below are their current stat lines:



2 Ozzie Albies ATL 157 27 46 8 5 4 21 3 1 18 28 .293 .365 .484 .849 0.8
3 Rafael Devers BOS 170 29 49 9 0 8 20 3 1 16 44 .288 .349 .482 .832 1.1

(I tried to type in the headings, but it didn't work when I posted. These are traditional states.)


Devers is great. What does that make Albies?

[Enscheff]

It makes Albies not on the east coast.

[JxnMissFan]

As far as the media is concerned the only good young players play for the Nats, Yanks, Red Sox and Cubs. Everyone else is just a wanna be.

[thewupk]

How will DRS and UZR be impacted by Statcast, if at all? Or is there a new defensive metric that will be borne of Statcast data?

Eventually it will be replaced. I think you will first see it for outfielders as that is where most of the statcast stuff is right now.

[thewupk]

Back to discussion about Albies, I was listening to/watching TV today, and I think it was MLB, though it might not have been. They were slobbering like crazy over Devers, doing amazing things at 20. I am admittedly a Braves homer, but I found their discussion short-sighted in that they didn't mention how similarly he and Albies have performed. Their implication was that he was unique among twenty year-olds in the league. Below are their current stat lines:



2 Ozzie Albies ATL 157 27 46 8 5 4 21 3 1 18 28 .293 .365 .484 .849 0.8
3 Rafael Devers BOS 170 29 49 9 0 8 20 3 1 16 44 .288 .349 .482 .832 1.1

(I tried to type in the headings, but it didn't work when I posted. These are traditional states.)


Devers is great. What does that make Albies?

People see the homers. 8 in your first 40 games at age 20 is impressive. But looking farther I am much more impressed with Albies skill set so far.

Slightly better walk rate, way lower K%, and plays better defense. Both are posting above average power at age 20 as well. Who knows how both careers will shake out but I would almost always take the guy who's doing better in walks, k's, and defense.

[clvclv]

Hey genius - was that in a thread discussing a thread asking who you'd trade Albies for?

Did you answer?

If you could trade Wisler and Bartolo's money for Prado at the time of the discussion, would you?

You understand there's a time-factor when these discussions take place, right? You're aware Ozzie didn't have 157 MLB PAs at that point, right?

I'd look for your ideas, but I've yet to see one.

[bravesfanMatt]

Hey genius - was that in a thread discussing a thread asking who you'd trade Albies for?

Did you answer?

If you could trade Wisler and Bartolo's money for Prado at the time of the discussion, would you?

You understand there's a time-factor when these discussions take place, right? You're aware Ozzie didn't have 157 MLB PAs at that point, right?

I'd look for your ideas, but I've yet to see one.

whoa man.. don't let a message board get you riled up. If you suggested a bad trade, then own it and have fun with it. don't get mad cause some might rib you for it. And if a comment was posted out of context, then still own it.. Just remember, this place is just a cool escape to have fun and not take things too serious.

[clvclv]

whoa man.. don't let a message board get you riled up. If you suggested a bad trade, then own it and have fun with it. don't get mad cause some might rib you for it. And if a comment was posted out of context, then still own it.. Just remember, this place is just a cool escape to have fun and not take things too serious.

Doesn't bother me in the least - pretty much the point.

Those bothered enough to whine about out of context *hit from months ago are the funny ones.

If that's the craziest *hit I've thrown up against the wall when people were having ridiculous hypothetical conversations, somebody's missed at least one or two (insert sarcastic emoji here since no one can detect them).

Of course, I'd bet sturg has 3 or 4 links to others saved to cover his lack of off the wall ideas.

[sturg33]

Doesn't bother me in the least - pretty much the point.

Those bothered enough to whine about out of context *hit from months ago are the funny ones.

If that's the craziest *hit I've thrown up against the wall when people were having ridiculous hypothetical conversations, somebody's missed at least one or two (insert sarcastic emoji here since no one can detect them).

Of course, I'd bet sturg has 3 or 4 links to others saved to cover his lack of off the wall ideas.

Sorry, but Albies for Dee Gordon was so stupid and so short sighted that you were rightfully criticized for it at the time.

Wanna hear my idea? Don't trade Albies. He is our best prospect and is going to be a stud.

[nsacpi]

a couple things seem obvious for any discussion board

1) outside the box ideas are to be welcomed

2) criticism and even ridiculing of any ideas is to be expected

3) let's not be so sensitive...this ain't a safe zone...rough play is to be expected

[thethe]

a couple things seem obvious for any discussion board

1) outside the box ideas are to be welcomed

2) criticism and even ridiculing of any ideas is to be expected

3) let's not be so sensitive...this ain't a safe zone...rough play is to be expected

Great rules to live by and not just a forum guideline.

[smootness]

Sorry, but Albies for Dee Gordon was so stupid and so short sighted that you were rightfully criticized for it at the time.

Wanna hear my idea? Don't trade Albies. He is our best prospect and is going to be a stud.

That's the hottest take on this board in quite a while.