Page 62 of 117 FirstFirst ... 1252606162636472112 ... LastLast
Results 1,221 to 1,240 of 2323

Thread: Around the League: 2017 offseason edition / 2018 Season

  1. #1221
    Very Flirtatious, but Doubts What Love Is. jpx7's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    11,903
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    47,591
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    6,441
    Thanked in
    3,830 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by thewupk View Post
    The game is changing. With the average fastball velocity skyrocketing you aren't seeing as many older hitters because they simply can't catch up to it anymore on average. We saw a perfect example of that with Bautista. It's also why players like Matt Holliday are still free agents. The next big casualty will be Paul Goldshmidt who doesn't have a hit on anything 96+ this year.
    According to Schoenfield‘s column this morning, Goldschmidt actually now has one such hit—but it’s still part of a complex of warning signs that are troubling for a guy who, at 30, is still a half-decade from that threshold Orphan mentions.

    It’s definitely where things are trending now, but I hope MLB doesn’t get to a point like the NFL is with RBs, where players over 30 are scarce and a lot of guys aren’t productive past a five-year window. I think that’d be a lot less entertaining of a game to follow—not to mention a recipe for a huge CBA overhaul.
    "For all his tattooings he was on the whole a clean, comely looking cannibal."

  2. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to jpx7 For This Useful Post:

    clvclv (05-23-2018), Managuarantano's Volunteers (05-22-2018)

  3. #1222
    Sabermetric Slut
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Your Mom's Basement
    Posts
    29,669
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1,721
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    8,744
    Thanked in
    5,837 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by jpx7 View Post
    According to Schoenfield‘s column this morning, Goldschmidt actually now has one such hit—but it’s still part of a complex of warning signs that are troubling for a guy who, at 30, is still a half-decade from that threshold Orphan mentions.

    It’s definitely where things are trending now, but I hope MLB doesn’t get to a point like the NFL is with RBs, where players over 30 are scarce and a lot of guys aren’t productive past a five-year window. I think that’d be a lot less entertaining of a game to follow—not to mention a recipe for a huge CBA overhaul.
    1B can crater at anytime at anytime sadly. Should be very careful with any thought of extending Freeman past what he's currently signed.

    The MLPA has already been crying about the money/offers being made to their aging vets. Like it or not GM's are going to do what it takes to win. Some fans don't like the 'impurity' of what's happening but in a system where winning is all that matters this is kind of what it comes to.

    I think the NFL RB is a good comparison. As someone who's a fan of the Cowboys it sucks knowing watching someone like Emmet again is just going to be a super rarity for any team. Game has changed to a pass first offense where RBs are used and abused for the most part then discarded. Only a select few RBs can be built around offensively.

  4. #1223
    Very Flirtatious, but Doubts What Love Is. jpx7's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    11,903
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    47,591
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    6,441
    Thanked in
    3,830 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by thewupk View Post
    1B can crater at anytime at anytime sadly. Should be very careful with any thought of extending Freeman past what he's currently signed.

    The MLPA has already been crying about the money/offers being made to their aging vets. Like it or not GM's are going to do what it takes to win. Some fans don't like the 'impurity' of what's happening but in a system where winning is all that matters this is kind of what it comes to.

    I think the NFL RB is a good comparison. As someone who's a fan of the Cowboys it sucks knowing watching someone like Emmet again is just going to be a super rarity for any team. Game has changed to a pass first offense where RBs are used and abused for the most part then discarded. Only a select few RBs can be built around offensively.
    I don't much disagree with you; but, at the same time, in my view, "winning" isn't the telos of sports, entertainment is—with "winning" just happening to be a substantial, but not total, component of entertainment. So for me there is value in getting to watch a guy like Albert Pujols chase legendary thresholds, even if the stats say he's been grinding along as a negative-value player the past year-plus (and even longer if you factor in salary). And I think it'd be a shame if we lose that aspect of the game.

    But I don't think we will. Instead, what I think you'll eventually see is some sort of dramatic restructuring of the compensation system, so pre-FA (and especially pre-arb) guys aren't dramatically underpaid relative to production, which I think will thus shift the onus away from overpaying for post-FA (and often decline-phase) production. Then you'll see guys like Pujols paid for what their milestone chasing is actually worth, from an entertainment-value standpoint, as opposed to what they deserved when they were putting up 45 war in their first six seasons and being dramatically uncompensated for it.
    "For all his tattooings he was on the whole a clean, comely looking cannibal."

  5. The Following User Says Thank You to jpx7 For This Useful Post:

    Jaw (05-23-2018)

  6. #1224
    Sabermetric Slut
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Your Mom's Basement
    Posts
    29,669
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1,721
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    8,744
    Thanked in
    5,837 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by jpx7 View Post
    I don't much disagree with you; but, at the same time, in my view, "winning" isn't the telos of sports, entertainment is—with "winning" just happening to be a substantial, but not total, component of entertainment. So for me there is value in getting to watch a guy like Albert Pujols chase legendary thresholds, even if the stats say he's been grinding along as a negative-value player the past year-plus (and even longer if you factor in salary). And I think it'd be a shame if we lose that aspect of the game.

    But I don't think we will. Instead, what I think you'll eventually see is some sort of dramatic restructuring of the compensation system, so pre-FA (and especially pre-arb) guys aren't dramatically underpaid relative to production, which I think will thus shift the onus away from overpaying for post-FA (and often decline-phase) production. Then you'll see guys like Pujols paid for what their milestone chasing is actually worth, from an entertainment-value standpoint, as opposed to what they deserved when they were putting up 45 war in their first six seasons and being dramatically uncompensated for it.
    I could see that. I think it will be hard for owners to give up that insane value they get from young players. As it stands they simply don't have to offer aging veterans anything and there won't be many instances of overpaying for those guys. They have all the leverage.

  7. #1225
    Expects Yuge Games nsacpi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    47,433
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    2,704
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    11,384
    Thanked in
    7,533 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by thewupk View Post
    I could see that. I think it will be hard for owners to give up that insane value they get from young players. As it stands they simply don't have to offer aging veterans anything and there won't be many instances of overpaying for those guys. They have all the leverage.
    Aging veterans should all go to a team like a Marlins (like Ichiro last year). Rebuilding teams make for good old folks homes.
    "I am a victim, I will tell you. I am a victim."

    "I am your retribution."

  8. #1226
    Sabermetric Slut
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Your Mom's Basement
    Posts
    29,669
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1,721
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    8,744
    Thanked in
    5,837 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by nsacpi View Post
    Aging veterans should all go to a team like a Marlins (like Ichiro last year). Rebuilding teams make for good old folks homes.
    Florida is where retirees go anyways.

  9. #1227
    It's OVER 5,000!
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    26,261
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    34
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    10,000
    Thanked in
    6,108 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by thewupk View Post
    1B can crater at anytime at anytime sadly. Should be very careful with any thought of extending Freeman past what he's currently signed.

    The MLPA has already been crying about the money/offers being made to their aging vets. Like it or not GM's are going to do what it takes to win. Some fans don't like the 'impurity' of what's happening but in a system where winning is all that matters this is kind of what it comes to.

    I think the NFL RB is a good comparison. As someone who's a fan of the Cowboys it sucks knowing watching someone like Emmet again is just going to be a super rarity for any team. Game has changed to a pass first offense where RBs are used and abused for the most part then discarded. Only a select few RBs can be built around offensively.
    Pujols, Goldschmidt...excellent examples of "athletic 1B" who weren't expected to decline like a typical 1B, but ultimately did.

    There is no scenario where it makes sense to extend Freeman past his current contract (outside of a massive home town discount).

  10. #1228
    It's OVER 5,000! striker42's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    10,597
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    387
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    3,187
    Thanked in
    2,040 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Enscheff View Post
    Pujols, Goldschmidt...excellent examples of "athletic 1B" who weren't expected to decline like a typical 1B, but ultimately did.

    There is no scenario where it makes sense to extend Freeman past his current contract (outside of a massive home town discount).
    Add Derrek Lee to that list.

    But the sense of an extension really depends. I could see Freeman staying very productive and valuable through the first 3 years of a new contract. The problem is I think there would have to be at least 3 more years after that. Most guys like Freddie hit a wall about age 34 or 35.

    The real question will be one of windows of competing. If we're in the middle of a window when Freddie's contract runs out, it might make sense to extend him even if we know he'll be an albatross three years later. If we're in a position to compete for the first part of that contract with the window closing later, it makes sense to extend him. Overpay him when we're not really going to compete.

  11. #1229
    It's OVER 5,000!
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    26,261
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    34
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    10,000
    Thanked in
    6,108 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by striker42 View Post
    Add Derrek Lee to that list.

    But the sense of an extension really depends. I could see Freeman staying very productive and valuable through the first 3 years of a new contract. The problem is I think there would have to be at least 3 more years after that. Most guys like Freddie hit a wall about age 34 or 35.

    The real question will be one of windows of competing. If we're in the middle of a window when Freddie's contract runs out, it might make sense to extend him even if we know he'll be an albatross three years later. If we're in a position to compete for the first part of that contract with the window closing later, it makes sense to extend him. Overpay him when we're not really going to compete.
    It's pretty safe to assume that there will always be a 2-3 win 1B available on a short term deal.

    That will always be preferable to willingly signing up for an albatross contract paying a 1B into his late 30s.

  12. #1230
    Very Flirtatious, but Doubts What Love Is. jpx7's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    11,903
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    47,591
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    6,441
    Thanked in
    3,830 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by thewupk View Post
    I could see that. I think it will be hard for owners to give up that insane value they get from young players. As it stands they simply don't have to offer aging veterans anything and there won't be many instances of overpaying for those guys. They have all the leverage.
    Not really, once the current CBA is up.
    "For all his tattooings he was on the whole a clean, comely looking cannibal."

  13. #1231
    It's OVER 5,000!
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Posts
    7,772
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    270
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1,491
    Thanked in
    1,150 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by thewupk View Post
    I could see that. I think it will be hard for owners to give up that insane value they get from young players. As it stands they simply don't have to offer aging veterans anything and there won't be many instances of overpaying for those guys. They have all the leverage.
    If the owners stop paying vets, player overall compensation would have nowhere to go but decline and the players will look for more from the owners.

    They could look at fixes like the DH in the NL or expanding active rosters, but if it keeps going that way with vets you can expect labor trouble.

  14. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Southcack77 For This Useful Post:

    clvclv (05-23-2018), jpx7 (05-22-2018)

  15. #1232
    It's OVER 5,000!
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Posts
    7,772
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    270
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1,491
    Thanked in
    1,150 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by striker42 View Post
    Add Derrek Lee to that list.

    But the sense of an extension really depends. I could see Freeman staying very productive and valuable through the first 3 years of a new contract. The problem is I think there would have to be at least 3 more years after that. Most guys like Freddie hit a wall about age 34 or 35.

    The real question will be one of windows of competing. If we're in the middle of a window when Freddie's contract runs out, it might make sense to extend him even if we know he'll be an albatross three years later. If we're in a position to compete for the first part of that contract with the window closing later, it makes sense to extend him. Overpay him when we're not really going to compete.
    Almost no one overpays upfront though. Makes a ton of sense to do it that way but most teams signing players are trying to squeeze the most out of present.

  16. #1233
    It's OVER 5,000!
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Posts
    8,025
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1,467
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1,951
    Thanked in
    1,360 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Enscheff View Post
    Pujols, Goldschmidt...excellent examples of "athletic 1B" who weren't expected to decline like a typical 1B, but ultimately did.

    There is no scenario where it makes sense to extend Freeman past his current contract (outside of a massive home town discount).
    Pujols is actually 40, too, not 38.

  17. #1234
    It's OVER 5,000!
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Posts
    8,025
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1,467
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    1,951
    Thanked in
    1,360 Posts
    curious how FG gave Tatis Jr a 65 FV when that's what Acuņa got. i think Acuņa was clearly a better prospect.

  18. #1235
    Sabermetric Slut
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Your Mom's Basement
    Posts
    29,669
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    1,721
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    8,744
    Thanked in
    5,837 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Super View Post
    curious how FG gave Tatis Jr a 65 FV when that's what Acuņa got. i think Acuņa was clearly a better prospect.
    Acuna is a better prospect which is why he's ranked higher.

    That said I feel the difference in defense closes the gap somewhat.

  19. #1236
    Approaching Buddy Hernandez Territory
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    1,059
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    2
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    234
    Thanked in
    154 Posts
    Braves are finally getting Power Ranking recognition...they jumped to number 4 on most lists...most had them 9-11 last week.

  20. #1237
    It's OVER 5,000!
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    11,386
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    2,392
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    2,746
    Thanked in
    1,975 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Enscheff View Post
    Pujols, Goldschmidt...excellent examples of "athletic 1B" who weren't expected to decline like a typical 1B, but ultimately did.

    There is no scenario where it makes sense to extend Freeman past his current contract (outside of a massive home town discount).
    This isn't a phenomena that is especially limited to 1b though. I posted an analysis a few months back showing that 1b over 30 aren't really any more or less likely to see a huge drop in production than any other position.

  21. #1238
    "What is a clvclv"
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Nebo, NC
    Posts
    9,634
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    5,354
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    2,340
    Thanked in
    1,628 Posts
    White Sox cut Todd Cunningham loose.
    Has there EVER been a statement and question a certain someone should absolutely never have made and asked publicly more than...

    Kinda pathetic to see yourself as a message board knight in shining armor. How impotent does someone have to be in real life to resort to playing hero on a message board?

  22. #1239
    Hessmania Forever
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    13,995
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    4,887
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    7,678
    Thanked in
    4,941 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by clvclv View Post
    White Sox cut Todd Cunningham loose.
    I think Todd needs to start thinking about a new vocation. Five different organizations in less than three years. Thanks Frank Wren.

  23. The Following User Says Thank You to 50PoundHead For This Useful Post:

    clvclv (05-24-2018)

  24. #1240
    Very Flirtatious, but Doubts What Love Is. jpx7's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    11,903
    Thanks Thanks Given 
    47,591
    Thanks Thanks Received 
    6,441
    Thanked in
    3,830 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by 50PoundHead View Post
    I think Todd needs to start thinking about a new vocation. Five different organizations in less than three years. Thanks Frank Wren.
    Definitely a reach in the second-round, but those high-floor guys really help your batting-average if you count “making the majors at all” as a “win” for any non-first-round draft-pick.

    Given his success in AAA over the previous two seasons, he should be able to squeeze another few years as AAAA depth / veteran filler, if he wants to.
    "For all his tattooings he was on the whole a clean, comely looking cannibal."

Similar Threads

  1. 2018 Offseason And Targets
    By clvclv in forum 2023: Celebrating Our 10th Year Here
    Replies: 11578
    Last Post: 03-26-2019, 07:29 PM
  2. Around the League: 2018/2019 Offseason
    By bravesfanforlife88 in forum 2023: Celebrating Our 10th Year Here
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 09-21-2018, 05:44 PM
  3. Bold predictions: 2017 edition
    By UNCBlue012 in forum 2023: Celebrating Our 10th Year Here
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 01-17-2017, 08:43 AM
  4. 2018 Offseason
    By thewupk in forum 2023: Celebrating Our 10th Year Here
    Replies: 22
    Last Post: 09-28-2016, 07:38 PM
  5. Replies: 1410
    Last Post: 03-30-2014, 04:16 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •