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Thread: Braves and the strategy to go young

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by nsacpi View Post
    The question is whether he is better off learning to hit the slider in AAA or the majors. On that question I am agnostic.

    On the question of whether the Braves would be better off with a young player learning to hit the slider in AAA or the majors, I am emphatically not agnostic.
    I personally don't feel there is any difference. He's either going to learn to hit/lay off the slider or not regardless if it's in MLB or AAA. The real issue, as enscheff talked about, is what benefit to the Braves is him learning this at the MLB level? What are possible negative ramifications? Surely they had their own scouting report on him to know he struggled with that pitch.

  2. #22
    Expects Yuge Games nsacpi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thewupk View Post
    Surely they had their own scouting report on him to know he struggled with that pitch.
    One would think so. The Braves are a gold standard franchise.

    ...yet not only did they keep him in the majors but moved him to the #2 spot in the lineup...
    Last edited by nsacpi; 04-26-2017 at 11:23 AM.

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    I predict a "Swanson gets contacts" article to be written very soon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Enscheff View Post
    I predict a "Swanson gets contacts" article to be written very soon.
    we'll see what kind of treatment he gets...the Braves have an interesting recent history of making public comments about the work habits and mental makeup of young players when they struggle...it puzzles me why a gold standard franchise treats its young players like that...somehow I think Swanson will avoid that treatement

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    if my thought dreams could be seen goldfly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tapate50 View Post
    I think its premature to say his promotion was premature.
    and if there is anything Tapate50 knows, it's premature ladies and gentleman


    boom


    thank you, i'll be here all week

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    Quote Originally Posted by Enscheff View Post
    Thames is the most recent success story of a guy roiding out of his mind and (apparently) improving dramatically
    FIFY

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    Quote Originally Posted by smootness View Post
    FIFY
    Thames always had plus power. His issue was contact, which I don't think roids alleviate.

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    Secretary of Statistics AerchAngel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smootness View Post
    FIFY
    and he tested negative and then told the testers they can test him twice a day and even on Sunday.

    He hits almost all of his homers in two parks, Brewers and Reds, this can happen with anyone. When a book is out on him, he will become average just like everyone else.

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    Quote Originally Posted by smootness View Post
    FIFY
    He's been tested 3 times since coming back.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AerchAngel View Post
    and he tested negative and then told the testers they can test him twice a day and even on Sunday.

    He hits almost all of his homers in two parks, Brewers and Reds, this can happen with anyone. When a book is out on him, he will become average just like everyone else.
    This.. he is feasting on the Reds right now. something like 7 homers against them. He is like so many others that bolt out the door and then fade as pitchers adjust on them. Much like Story last year.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nsacpi View Post
    One would think so. The Braves are a gold standard franchise.

    ...yet not only did they keep him in the majors but moved him to the #2 spot in the lineup...
    The narrative is starting...

    12:10
    Larry: Concerned about Swanson?
    12:11
    Dave Cameron: Yeah. Last year’s BABIP masked a lot of offensive flaws. He’ll probably be fine long term, but he wasn’t ready to be as good as ATL hoped.

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    Who is the one player in AA, not a brave, that is younger than Albies?

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    Quote Originally Posted by smootness View Post
    FIFY
    And Dave Cameron agrees...you're a moron:

    12:25
    caesarsolid: If Thames keeps up anywhere near his current ISO, how long before suspicions about PEDs drowns out his production?
    12:25
    Dave Cameron: People who think this is about PEDs don’t know what they’re talking about.

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    Expects Yuge Games nsacpi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enscheff View Post
    The narrative is starting...

    12:10
    Larry: Concerned about Swanson?
    12:11
    Dave Cameron: Yeah. Last year’s BABIP masked a lot of offensive flaws. He’ll probably be fine long term, but he wasn’t ready to be as good as ATL hoped.
    "None of us are worried. He's gonna be fine." John Hart

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    A Chip Off the Old Rock Julio3000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nsacpi View Post
    "None of us are worried. He's gonna be fine." John Hart
    I'm not worried about him long-term, either, but I surely thought the Larkin/Jeter/Trammell talk was premature, and said so.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bravesfanMatt View Post
    This.. he is feasting on the Reds right now. something like 7 homers against them. He is like so many others that bolt out the door and then fade as pitchers adjust on them. Much like Story last year.
    And he also agrees that you're a moron:

    12:31
    Collin: I get that this is the Eric Thames show, but lets remember that 8 of his 11 home runs have come against the Reds(triple A pitching pretty much). Still impressive, but he might be the hitter who simply punishes below average pitching.
    12:32
    Dave Cameron: There are basically no examples of players who could crush mediocre pitching at this level and couldn’t also hold their own against good pitchers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Julio3000 View Post
    I'm not worried about him long-term, either, but I surely thought the Larkin/Jeter/Trammell talk was premature, and said so.
    Well...that's folks on a message board...it really never makes sense to project a prospect to be All-Star or better...except a very small number of guys like Harper

    Swanson in the same league as Hall of Famer type players never made any sense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Enscheff View Post
    And he also agrees that you're a moron:

    12:31
    Collin: I get that this is the Eric Thames show, but lets remember that 8 of his 11 home runs have come against the Reds(triple A pitching pretty much). Still impressive, but he might be the hitter who simply punishes below average pitching.
    12:32
    Dave Cameron: There are basically no examples of players who could crush mediocre pitching at this level and couldn’t also hold their own against good pitchers.

    And yet in a month he will be mired in a slump of epic proportion. and never be an 'espn' highlight again. He is fun to talk about and entertains the mindless derps like you.. but reality will set in soon and we will all forget about him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Julio3000 View Post
    I'm not worried about him long-term, either, but I surely thought the Larkin/Jeter/Trammell talk was premature, and said so.
    I still think he ends up being very similar to Trammell, but probably without the peak power output.

    Being called up early did not "ruin" Dansby Swanson. All it did was cost the Braves control of his age 29 season...which is kind of a big deal for a mid-market team.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Enscheff View Post
    There are 2 lines of thinking when it comes to promoting guys early:

    1. Guys will have to make adjustments to the MLB level eventually, and the ones that are talented/smart enough to do it will figure it out.

    2. Guys learn from succeeding against lower level competition before being challenged at the MLB level.

    There is anecdotal evidence about guys failing and succeeding while following both lines of thinking. Thames is the most recent success story of a guy getting reps against lesser competition and (apparently) improving dramatically enough that he has success at the MLB level after largely failing early in his career. I am of the opinion there simply no way to tell who will make the transition to MLB and who won't so give the kids a shot when they've earned it and when the team needs it.

    The downside to promoting a guy too aggressively in the minors is pretty small since it can be remedied with a demotion that costs the team nothing. Promoting a guy to MLB too early can have fairly significant consequences for the team as it starts their service clock, and sending them down burns an option year.

    So if you are going to call a guy up to MLB early, it better be worth it. Having Heyward on the opening day roster was worth it because the Braves were competitive. Having Swanson on the roster to end a 68 win season and to start another guaranteed non-competitive season is pure stupidity...and it has absolutely nothing to do with his stat line or his ability to adjust to the MLB level.
    The only thing I would add is that if you are worried about the service time, then the player actually learned the lesson and succeeded. The struggles might actually make it easier to sign him to a team friendly deal, but it would certainly depend and could go either way.

    I'd probably be in the camp of if someone is good enough to figure out to hit major league pitching, he probably can do it in the majors. The willingness of a major league club to give him the time is the question.

    For the extremely rare case of someone like Thames who fails and then plays overseas and completely changes his approach to hitting .... I would find that about as useful to talk about as some other folks might want to talk about Tom Glavine being an example of you don't have to throw hard to be a successful major league pitcher.

    Either way, I wouldn't think about Swanson again until June. If he's hitting .200 then and still looks hopeless then send him down, but I don't see why you wouldn't let him try to work it out from the 8 spot on this team.

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