I'm not really sure what you're asking. In my understanding, there is no "either way."
I'm not really sure what you're asking. In my understanding, there is no "either way."
I think it's worth pointing out that Obama shat the bed with gusto in relation to Syria (and really, in relation to all things in the Middle East).Originally Posted by 57Brave
Obamas foreign policy will be remembered as the destabilization period which preceded 100+ years of war.
Whatever criticism Obama's due for, it's worth noting that as his non-action is considered to be ex post facto wrong, there's the underlying assumption that the entire history of the world began in 2009.
Yeah, it was a really ****ty decision of Obama's to disband the Iraqi army and prop up a pro-Iranian Shiite government in Iraq.
He did nothing, in effect. That was arguably bad and maybe worthy of criticism on humanitarian grounds, but I would appreciate at least a legitimate counter-proposal.
It also really sucked when he invaded Iraq and kicked the whole destabilization thing off.
"Donald Trump will serve a second term as president of the United States.
It’s over."
Little Thethe Nov 19, 2020.
The Chosen One (04-04-2017)
Bush was a disaster. What point are you trying to make?
Seems pretty obvious, no?
Yeah that Obama turned a horrible decision into a catastrophic disaster.
I'm really having a hard time squaring that statement with your assignation of blame for a century of war.
So Bush tipped over the apple cart in the region, but Obama's failure to right it is the real disaster. This puts your more recent takes on surveillance, etc, in pretty good context.
Someone squeezes all the toothpaste out of the tube. The next person who comes in does a poor job cleaning it up. Your response is "why didn't you put the toothpaste back in the tube!"
Lol. thethe gonna blame Obama for the Arab Spring.
Forever Fredi
Or, in Obama's case, one might say: "Why didn't you even try to put the toothpaste back in the tube?"
We all know the reason is because the Middle East was anathema to public opinion and Obama's presidency largely depended on wholesome perceptions.
The thread of problems in the Middle East can be chased back to the 70s. Not sure what good it does to pass the buck on Obama's failure by laying the dead dog on Bush's doorstep ... he's just going to take it back to Clinton who'll take it back to Pappy ... etc.
Last edited by Hawk; 04-04-2017 at 05:51 PM.
When it comes to Middle Eastern screw ups, we haven't had a good President in a long long long time.
But Bush takes the cake for the dumbest
As in Woodrow Wilson or even back Thomas Jefferson vs the Barbury Pirates.
Shoot, the first crusade.
European culture has never had a good relationship with the Middle East.
Wasn't it a Roman Governor ...
My intention here, contrary to belief, isn't to give Obama a pass. Maybe he ****ed up. I've certainly read and understood the case for it. I just resist the CERTAINTY that he did so, in that it involves knowing the unknowable and depends largely on a case made by the folks who sold the Iraq war as worthwhile and necessary.
I understand that case (re Obama) and think it has some merit. I understand the Obama case and feel like it has merit, too. The point is that we don't know, we only speculate. So it should all carry disclaimers to that effect.
So, Barack ****ed up. Let's accept that premise. Trump is the President now. What's his solution? Judging by the people who actually influence his decisions, it's that we're going to somehow form a white nationalist coalition with the Russians to defeat the Musselman. That could to make the follies of the last decade-and-a-half look like like child's play.
I mean, sure... but neither Clinton nor Poppy Bush did what 43 did.The thread of problems in the Middle East can be chased back to the 70s. Not sure what good it does to pass the buck on Obama's failure by laying the dead dog on Bush's doorstep ... he's just going to take it back to Clinton who'll take it back to Pappy ... etc.
And let's be honest, here: you were a full-throated defender of that, even well after the fact.
If passing the buck is so futile, why are you singling Obama out?
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