Netanyahu: Muslims responsible for Holocaust.

[AerchAngel]

And remember how Jews were treated during the Bubonic plague outbreaks? The Catholic church has a long history of antisemitism, ask Mel Gibson, but Mr. Protestant Martin Luther was pretty rabid in his feelings about Jews as well. Really it would probably be harder to find groups who have historically liked the Jews than to pick out groups who didn't.

My wife hates it that I don't want to convert to Catholicism, but she loves me as a person.

I have a disdain for any religion to be honest so I can understand the fight between these two because their rules, RULES. Why have so many RULES?

[Oklahomahawk]

You by trade is a History teacher and by experience you are more experience than me and I took History at the University in Iowa (Good teachers of History) and things you've said is correct. Bibi is not to be trusted but I understand what he is saying. The country of Israel is in dire danger all the time and he will do anything in his power to keep it safe so who are we to blame him in anything he does or says? He could have wiped Iran off the map but he knows that nuclear fallout would hit Turkey and Russia and they would be wiped out, Iran knows that as well.

So the only thing Bibi can do is a propaganda war based on rhetoric which we are discussing. Out of the Democrat playbook of disinformation, lying, deflecting and whatnot. Actually this surprises me because Republicans aka Conservatives are blunt force type of personalities.

This is a propaganda attack.

Why does that surprise you? The Repubs are and always have been just as full of ****e as the Dems, that's really at the root of my utter disbelief at how so many people can really follow either party. I guess that's where the "hey look how bad THEY are" slight of hand stuff comes in handy.

As for Bibi, I understand that he has to do what's best for his country, but there's just something about him that says there's more to it than that. Also, does he want to be our ally for real or are we just a means to an end?

[Oklahomahawk]

My wife hates it that I don't want to convert to Catholicism, but she loves me as a person.

I have a disdain for any religion to be honest so I can understand the fight between these two because their rules, RULES. Why have so many RULES?

I always try to respect other peoples' religious choices even if I disagree with them. I don't necessary have a problem with rules, as long as I understand the end game and to me the Catholic church gets men way too involved in my salvation, my standing with the church, etc. To me it's like separation of church and state. I know most Christians hate this notion, but to me the state isn't competent to run the state, they certainly shouldn't be allowed to influence anyone's eternity.

[AerchAngel]

I always try to respect other peoples' religious choices even if I disagree with them. I don't necessary have a problem with rules, as long as I understand the end game and to me the Catholic church gets men way too involved in my salvation, my standing with the church, etc. To me it's like separation of church and state. I know most Christians hate this notion, but to me the state isn't competent to run the state, they certainly shouldn't be allowed to influence anyone's eternity.

I as well.

When Dems go after people about cakes, I am like why?

But the same people will not go after Jews or Muslims.

You see the issue.

I am a Christian and baptized, but yet I can't take communion at a Catholic or the Jewish equivalent but all others, no problem.

That is when I decided that I will not be a part of any religion.

Rules. I hate rules and our nation is based on it.

Republicans want this, take as much money as you can with least resistance as possible. Democrats wants that but much worse, to control your thoughts, your morals.

Why do people follow this ideology is beyond me?

[AerchAngel]

Why does that surprise you? The Repubs are and always have been just as full of ****e as the Dems, that's really at the root of my utter disbelief at how so many people can really follow either party. I guess that's where the "hey look how bad THEY are" slight of hand stuff comes in handy.

As for Bibi, I understand that he has to do what's best for his country, but there's just something about him that says there's more to it than that. Also, does he want to be our ally for real or are we just a means to an end?

My friend you are rolling today. Grats!!!

Everything you've said is spot on.

I can see why we are hated by both sides...well Sturg is getting that status as well.

They have no port to sail to, no land they can land on. Both parties sucks to high heaven.

Even Dr. Carson hates being a Republican (he is not greed/NeoCon based), but he has no chance as a Democrat on religious issues. Too many Atheists on their side.

[50PoundHead]

And remember how Jews were treated during the Bubonic plague outbreaks? The Catholic church has a long history of antisemitism, ask Mel Gibson, but Mr. Protestant Martin Luther was pretty rabid in his feelings about Jews as well. Really it would probably be harder to find groups who have historically liked the Jews than to pick out groups who didn't.

We Lutherans don't talk much about those writings, but they are a pox on our denomination. One could argue, perhaps not convincingly, that prior to the modern era (and even into the modern era), Jews were treated fairly by comparison under the Ottoman Empire. But even then, if something went wrong, it was those darn Jews that were to blame somehow. They've been hounded wherever they've gone and forced into closed communities. Funny thing is that without the Jews, capitalism probably wouldn't have flourished. Many Christian denominations forbid the practice of usury, so someone had to be in the banking business and it often fell to the Jews, who were necessary for economic expansion, but still reviled (see the depiction in The Merchant of Venice).

[AerchAngel]

We Lutherans don't talk much about those writings, but they are a pox on our denomination. One could argue, perhaps not convincingly, that prior to the modern era (and even into the modern era), Jews were treated fairly by comparison under the Ottoman Empire. But even then, if something went wrong, it was those darn Jews that were to blame somehow. They've been hounded wherever they've gone and forced into closed communities. Funny thing is that without the Jews, capitalism probably wouldn't have flourished. Many Christian denominations forbid the practice of usury, so someone had to be in the banking business and it often fell to the Jews, who were necessary for economic expansion, but still reviled (see the depiction in The Merchant of Venice).

I know you have saw the issue here in Eau Claire and the Lutheran church, it is bad, really bad.

They have a severe division. One's route of evolution of allowing gays and the other isn't. Well the one isn't got a lot more members and the ones who did accept lost their churches and like Chicago and Minneapolis and Milwaukee are renting old office or business buildings.

IN Steve Harvey's standup, the one that stand out.

When you get kicked out of church made in the early 1900's you adapt, you get one of those strip mall joints. Not going by your old name to descrate it, you give it a new one:

Mesopatamia Baptist to the High Lord Jesus Christ the Apostle of the Virgin Mary and the Higher Saints of St. Joseph and St. Peter Church.

Yes, they do exist in Chicago, those long ass names for Baptist and other churches of their religion.

[Oklahomahawk]

We Lutherans don't talk much about those writings, but they are a pox on our denomination. One could argue, perhaps not convincingly, that prior to the modern era (and even into the modern era), Jews were treated fairly by comparison under the Ottoman Empire. But even then, if something went wrong, it was those darn Jews that were to blame somehow. They've been hounded wherever they've gone and forced into closed communities. Funny thing is that without the Jews, capitalism probably wouldn't have flourished. Many Christian denominations forbid the practice of usury, so someone had to be in the banking business and it often fell to the Jews, who were necessary for economic expansion, but still reviled (see the depiction in The Merchant of Venice).

Well it certainly isn't just on your denomination but I do see your point. I was raised a Southern Baptist. You do know why we're Southern Baptists, instead of just plain old Baptists, right? Ironically it isn't related to the Jews, just but as bad IMO.

[AerchAngel]

Well it certainly isn't just on your denomination but I do see your point. I was raised a Southern Baptist. You do know why we're Southern Baptists, instead of just plain old Baptists, right? Ironically it isn't related to the Jews, just but as bad IMO.

Clubber Lang; "Southern Baptist? pain"

I thought Mormons and 7 Day Adventist, along with Jews, Muslims and Caths were bad, but SB take the cake.

People don't understand that putting man made edicts into religion is a bad thing.

[Oklahomahawk]

Clubber Lang; "Southern Baptist? pain"

I thought Mormons and 7 Day Adventist, along with Jews, Muslims and Caths were bad, but SB take the cake.

People don't understand that putting man made edicts into religion is a bad thing.

Well here's a hint, it goes back to a BIG Baptist convention back around 1850 (don't recall the exact year but that's pretty close) and a GREAT BIG blowup that happened at that convention. Who can fill in the rest of the blanks on this one?

[Runnin]

Well here's a hint, it goes back to a BIG Baptist convention back around 1850 (don't recall the exact year but that's pretty close) and a GREAT BIG blowup that happened at that convention. Who can fill in the rest of the blanks on this one?

I'll take a guess that it had something to do with slavery. . . . whether slave owners could serve as missionaries or not?

[Oklahomahawk]

I'll take a guess that it had something to do with slavery. . . . whether slave owners could serve as missionaries or not?

It did indeed!! Actually it was about state's rights, which in and of itself isn't necessarily a bad thing. But sadly the "right" to keep slaves was considered to be part of state's rights therefore when you accept one you automatically accept the other, even if you don't really mean to. And if you look deeply enough into the Bible you'll find a handful of verses that support that theory, which is why you should always beware of anyone who builds an entire theology on 3 or 4 Bible verses. That's why we were given the entire book, because 3 or 4 verses just don't quite do the job.

And I know a LOT of people, including quite a few on this board don't want to hear it but there is a modern day equivalency to women's rights. If you try to separate those you get into a battle just like you did with state's right 165 years ago m/l when that Baptist convention was held.

[AerchAngel]

This is why I like you two. By being teachers, you know your stuff. I am just a few classes (I have the credits but not the classes) from Masters but Technology is neither of you's strong point but History and Literature it is and I respect that a lot.

I might give you a hard time, but I respect those in the Academia.

[AerchAngel]

Now you two know why I left the church/religion for good. And why I don't like Democrats for good?

I don't like anyone controlling me or my actions on life. I respect everyone but don't you dare dictate my feelings on anything. If someone doesn't like how I feel about you, too bad. I am not going to physically harm you, never will, but don't think if you try with me that I won't retaliate with DEADLY force.

[BedellBrave]

And remember how Jews were treated during the Bubonic plague outbreaks? The Catholic church has a long history of antisemitism, ask Mel Gibson, but Mr. Protestant Martin Luther was pretty rabid in his feelings about Jews as well. Really it would probably be harder to find groups who have historically liked the Jews than to pick out groups who didn't.

True - so again, maybe it is best to focus on the here and now - are we (anyone) guilty of a hatred that would cause us to murder another human being for their race, their creed, their worldview? Or encourage that whole group be annihilated? If so...

[BedellBrave]

Why does that surprise you? The Repubs are and always have been just as full of ****e as the Dems, that's really at the root of my utter disbelief at how so many people can really follow either party. I guess that's where the "hey look how bad THEY are" slight of hand stuff comes in handy.

As for Bibi, I understand that he has to do what's best for his country, but there's just something about him that says there's more to it than that. Also, does he want to be our ally for real or are we just a means to an end?

We are a means to an end for any Israeli administration - and that end is self-survival. Go to Masada and you'll have no doubts about what that end is.

[BedellBrave]

We Lutherans don't talk much about those writings, but they are a pox on our denomination. One could argue, perhaps not convincingly, that prior to the modern era (and even into the modern era), Jews were treated fairly by comparison under the Ottoman Empire. But even then, if something went wrong, it was those darn Jews that were to blame somehow. They've been hounded wherever they've gone and forced into closed communities. Funny thing is that without the Jews, capitalism probably wouldn't have flourished. Many Christian denominations forbid the practice of usury, so someone had to be in the banking business and it often fell to the Jews, who were necessary for economic expansion, but still reviled (see the depiction in The Merchant of Venice).

I'm something of a student of the Reformers and while if we hold an overarching moral code to which all others should be judged (I do - as do most folks really), then Luther's anti-Semitism is certainly sinful, wrong, and worthy of critique/judgment. Nevertheless, we ought to be careful with anachronistic judgments and that goes for all (imho). When viewed against the backdrop of the late Middle Ages and early Modern era of Europe, Luther isn't much different than the general view towards Jews of his day and in part due to the point you make about usury. His was also due to a narrow blame he was placing on those responsible for the death of Christ - which was unfortunate because in general his theology was far better than that).

[BedellBrave]

I know you have saw the issue here in Eau Claire and the Lutheran church, it is bad, really bad.

They have a severe division. One's route of evolution of allowing gays and the other isn't. Well the one isn't got a lot more members and the ones who did accept lost their churches and like Chicago and Minneapolis and Milwaukee are renting old office or business buildings.

IN Steve Harvey's standup, the one that stand out.

When you get kicked out of church made in the early 1900's you adapt, you get one of those strip mall joints. Not going by your old name to descrate it, you give it a new one:

Mesopatamia Baptist to the High Lord Jesus Christ the Apostle of the Virgin Mary and the Higher Saints of St. Joseph and St. Peter Church.

Yes, they do exist in Chicago, those long ass names for Baptist and other churches of their religion.

AA, there are indeed several types of Lutherans - the three biggest that I know of and 50 can correct me - the ELCA (or what used to be called the ELCA) - it's a mainline church that leans left theologically and politically; the LCMS (Missouri Synod) - it's an evangelical denomination and the second largest Lutheran denomination (I'd probably fit in there if I were Lutheran ;-) ) and the Wisconsin Synod - a very conservative even fundamentalist type of Lutheran Church.

50, are you ELCA (or what use to be ELCA)? I'm familiar with both ELCA and LCMS. My impression is that the ELCA is going the way of most mainline churches, that is to say, dwindling. But the LCMS seems to be holding their own if not growing. Wisconsin Synod - not growing.

[Runnin]

We are a means to an end for any Israeli administration - and that end is self-survival.

ultimately a worldly and anti-spiritual thesis?

[BedellBrave]

ultimately a worldly and anti-spiritual thesis?

Worldly - but not necessarily anti-spiritual.