The Trump Presidency

[cajunrevenge]

You know Comey wasnt involved because they didnt give everyone blanked immunity without requiring information that leads to a criminal prosecution.

[Super]

Any reason for concern with Comey stating he had no knowledge of wiretapping?

no. because the question was if trump was wiretapped. and he wasn't. what is so difficult to understand about this. the moron lied to and deceived you. you can stop believing it.

[thethe]

no. because the question was if trump was wiretapped. and he wasn't. what is so difficult to understand about this. the moron lied to and deceived you. you can stop believing it.

Considering trump owns the tower if any connection's were tapped then his claim easy right. Therefore, if Comey was aware of this then he lied.

Please show where trump said a specific line was tapped. So instead of being emotional like mostly all hysterical libs are now try to see the corruption that was the Obama administration.

[nsacpi]

Any reason for concern with Comey stating he had no knowledge of wiretapping?

I'd like to see a quote that said "I have no knowledge of wiretapping."

The quote that I have some recollection of his making was to the effect, "There is no evidence that I know of that supports the view that Trump was wiretapped."

Please correct me if you have more information.

[thethe]

I'd like to see a quote that said "I have no knowledge of wiretapping."

The quote that I have some recollection of his making was to the effect, "There is no evidence that I know of that supports the view that Trump was wiretapped."

Please correct me if you have more information.

Trump said his wires were tapped at trump tower. He owns all wires. Comey should have known that manafort was being monitored while staying in trump tower.

Am I thinking about this the wrong way?

[Hawk]

1. Not sure what you're saying here. Just because you've continued to paint worst-case scenarios about the provenance of the warrant doesn't make it so. You're throwing around words like "critically" and "incautiously," while tossing out speculation that's even less grounded in fact.

2. The predecessor alternative to FISA was just eavesdropping with zero oversight. So yeah, better.

3. Ok, fair enough. It's an interesting application of Occam's razor, though, to say that his contacts are easily explained away but not that the same circumstances (extensive connections to the oligarchy, willingness to operate off the books and in the legal grey, money problems) make him appear a reasonable locus of suspicion.

1. All I've done, repeatedly, is state that the bar for a FISA warrant is incredibly high. You still seem to think that the warrant was based on "contacts with foreign intelligence assets". Stating that a FISA warrant requires more direct evidence is not painting a worst case scenario. Attempting to extract clarity about the warrant from one of the few areas of the secret court that we actually know anything about is not speculating.

2. You think there is oversight AFTER the warrant is issued? Lol. Look at you all trusting the NSA.

3. I've never said that we shouldn't be suspicious of Manafort. You see the circumstances as as indemnifying. I see them as potentially extenuating.

[Hawk]

What you're saying, Hawk, is that the top people at both the FBI and the DOJ signed off on a spurious warrant based on innocent conversations with foreign intelligence agents, so that the Obama White House could peruse the Trump campaign's playbook.

This is what you have said, while throwing around words like "incautious" and "uncritical."

No, that is not what I'm saying or what I've said. I've tip-toed around it, I've insinuated it, and I've pondered it, but the basis for my argument is not predicated on the belief that the previous administration acted nefariously.

[Hawk]

Considering trump owns the tower if any connection's were tapped then his claim easy right.

This.

All day and all night.

If any line in Trump's building was wiretapped (especially if his campaign manager's office lines were included) then his claim is unequivocally vindicated here.

[nsacpi]

Trump said his wires were tapped at trump tower. He owns all wires. Comey should have known that manafort was being monitored while staying in trump tower.

Am I thinking about this the wrong way?

To my mind there is a difference between Trump and Trump Tower. Trump Tower is yuge, more like a small village. I believe that when a wiretap permit is given for someone like Manafort, it would apply to his apartment and that communications emanating from nearby aparments would not be covered by such a permit. Perhaps I am mistaken in this.

[nsacpi]

This.

All day and all night.

If any line in Trump's building was wiretapped (especially if his campaign manager's office lines were included) then his claim is unequivocally vindicated here.

I think Trump is capable of understanding the distinction between himself and another resident in his building and that his claim referred to the former.

[thethe]

I think Trump is capable of understanding the distinction between himself and another resident in his building and that his claim referred to the former.

But hi claim is that the Trump tower wires were tapped. 'His' wires. I don't see how it's a stretch to say that manafort wires at trump are also trumps.

Therefore, Comey either don't know this operation was taking place or willfully lied to congress. Neither is good and each have a large damaging back story that the American people deserve to know.

[Hawk]

I think Trump is capable of understanding the distinction between himself and another resident in his building and that his claim referred to the former.

Yeah, I understand the point you are making, but even as a matter of technicality Trump is still right. It's his building/property.

That being said, Manafort is not just another resident. And we're not sure to what extent the Tower was wired up.

[nsacpi]

But hi claim is that the Trump tower wires were tapped. 'His' wires. I don't see how it's a stretch to say that manafort wires at trump are also trumps.

Therefore, Comey either don't know this operation was taking place or willfully lied to congress. Neither is good and each have a large damaging back story that the American people deserve to know.

I don't think he said the Trump Tower wires were tapped.

[nsacpi]

Yeah, I understand the point you are making, but even as a matter of technicality Trump is still right. It's his building/property.

That being said, Manafort is not just another resident. And we're not sure to what extent the Tower was wired up.

To make an adjudication as to whether he was right or not one would have to venture into his mind to know what he was talking about. I am not inclined to undertake such a journey. But from my vantage point there is a distinction between Trump and Trump Tower. From my vantage point again, it appears to me that Trump understands that there is such a distinction and that when he was referring to "my wires" he was talking about a wiretap on his communications not those of a tenant in his building.

[Jaw]

I think Trump is capable of understanding the distinction between himself and another resident in his building and that his claim referred to the former.

Yep. But he is also a master at including enough truth to not be a full on liar. I expect that he caught wind of this and knew precisely what was going on, and that saying "Trump Tower was tapped" had enough truth that he could spring a trap on Comey/Clapper/Lynch etc when they inevitably denied it. I think he was correct. Look at this summary of Clapper's interview with Chuck Todd:

Former DNI James Clapper: ‘I Can Deny’ Wiretap of Trump Tower
by KAILANI KOENIG
WASHINGTON — Former Director of National Intelligence James Clapper on Sunday denied any suggestion that Trump Tower communications were wiretapped before the election.

For the part of the national security apparatus that he oversaw, "there was no such wiretap activity mounted against the president, the president-elect at the time, or as a candidate, or against his campaign," Clapper told Chuck Todd in an exclusive interview on Sunday’s “Meet The Press.”When Todd asked him whether he could confirm or deny if a FISA (Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court Act) order for this existed, Clapper declared, "I can deny it."

Asked again whether there was a FISA Court order to monitor Trump Tower, Clapper said, "Not to my knowledge."

Clapper said that if any wiretap like that occurred, he would “certainly hope” that he would be aware of it.



Farther on in the article, it gets even worse:

Clapper was also asked on "Meet the Press" if he had any evidence that the Trump campaign was colluding with the Russian government while the Kremlin was working to influence the election.

"Not to my knowledge," Clapper said, based on the information he had before his time in the position ended.

“We did not include anything in our report … that had any reflect of collusion between members of the Trump campaign and the Russians. There was no evidence of that included in our report," he said. “We had no evidence of such collusion.”

Again, it's a kernel of truth in Trump's claim. But then the DNI says he isn't aware of the Tower being tapped, of a FISA order to tap the Tower, or of any collusion between members of the campaign and the Russians. The optics on that are really, really bad.

forgot the link: https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/whi...-claim-n729196

[thethe]

I don't think he said the Trump Tower wires were tapped.

This is his comment:

Terrible! Just found out that Obama had my "wires tapped" in Trump Tower just before the victory. Nothing found. This is McCarthyism!



All wires in trump tower are his wires.

[Hawk]

To make an adjudication as to whether he was right or not one would have to venture into his mind to know what he was talking about. I am not inclined to undertake such a journey. But from my vantage point there is a distinction between Trump and Trump Tower. From my vantage point again, it appears to me that Trump understands that there is such a distinction and that when he was referring to "my wires" he was talking about a wiretap on his communications not those of a tenant in his building.

If we (eventually) learn that Manafort's lines on the 14th floor (campaign offices) were tapped would that be due cause for you to reconsider the journey?

[57Brave]

All wires in trump tower are his wires.

It is argued the wires in Trump Tower belong to Russian Mafia.
Until we see his tax returns, we don't know who the wires belong to.

Having said that === to paraphrase David Corn,
"this would be a great day for Trump to release his tax returns"

[nsacpi]

Clapper put himself in a tough spot when he answered the first question (about Trump and the Trump campaign). For him to answer the second question (about Trump Tower) I think would have run afoul of laws about disclosing confidential information. And declining to answer that question would have raised a lot of eyebrows. Tough situation. I can't say he handled it the best way. But it was a tough spot to be in.

It could also be that Clapper's answers are accurate. What we know from the CNN story is that Manafort's communications were being monitored. I don't believe any information has come out that he was living at his apartment in Trump Tower and that his communications from that location were being monitored.

[nsacpi]

If we (eventually) learn that Manafort's lines on the 14th floor (campaign offices) were tapped would that be due cause for you to reconsider the journey?

Yes, because as far as I know Manafort was no longer part of the campaign. There would have been no reason to tap the campaign offices. Unless Manafort retained a role in the campaign and was operating out of the 14th floor offices.