Flags Fly Forever.....

[NYCBrave]

Since it's been brought up on this board alot over the past couple of days, was curious to hear which side everyone stands on.

Personally, I've always felt the playoffs are a crap shoot. I'd much rather enjoy winning baseball year in year out, gives me something to cheer for each year, as opposed to going all in for one year of glory and having to pay for it with bad baseball for years to come.

Remember, division title flags fly forever too.

[bravesfanforlife88]

Since it's been brought up on this board alot over the past couple of days, was curious to hear which side everyone stands on.

Personally, I've always felt the playoffs are a crap shoot. I'd much rather enjoy winning baseball year in year out, gives me something to cheer for each year, as opposed to going all in for one year of glory and having to pay for it with bad baseball for years to come.

Remember, division title flags fly forever too.

There are times when we have to go for it. Years like this I felt we could

[Heyward]

I'm not against going for it, when the time is right. I dont believe the Braves even with 2-3 big additions would win it all, and it would haunt us for years to come.

I think eventually AA's gonna have to cash in, but now isnt the time to do that. Besides, what happens if you make some big moves, dont win it all, and are left with an empty farm?

[Heyward]

There are times when we have to go for it. Years like this I felt we could

I dont think even with some big additions, we'd beat the Dodgers or Astros, or Yankees, etc.

[Super]

There are times when we have to go for it. Years like this I felt we could

what does that entail, tho? "going for it" for one year can sink you. it severely hampers your chances in the coming years. and if you don't win it in the year you "went for it" the future is terrible.

selling off every prospect still wouldn't have made you better than LAD or HOU. the Braves will have a shot to win every single year (including this year) if they play their cards right and don't get anxious and decide to "go for it." that's when trouble happens.

[Heyward]

what does that entail, tho? "going for it" for one year can sink you. it severely hampers your chances in the coming years. and if you don't win it in the year you "went for it" the future is terrible.

selling off every prospect still wouldn't have made you better than LAD or HOU. the Braves will have a shot to win every single year (including this year) if they play their cards right and don't get anxious and decide to "go for it." that's when trouble happens.

I think AA will make a big trade at some point or who knows, maybe all our top prospects pan out and he wont have to lol.

Based off his comments with Frenchy and Chip, a big move would come with someone with some control coming back, multiple years of it.

[nsacpi]

Since it's been brought up on this board alot over the past couple of days, was curious to hear which side everyone stands on.

Personally, I've always felt the playoffs are a crap shoot. I'd much rather enjoy winning baseball year in year out, gives me something to cheer for each year, as opposed to going all in for one year of glory and having to pay for it with bad baseball for years to come.

Remember, division title flags fly forever too.

going all in and emptying the farm does not a guarantee a thing...sometimes it helps a team win a WS, but even then winning a WS requires a certain amount of luck...that Cubs-Indians World Series could have gone either way

[nsacpi]

Remember, division title flags fly forever too.

The things that stay with me over the years are memorable events during pennant chases. Justice homering off Dibble. The great pennant race between the Braves and Giants in 1993. Chipper in Shea. Those memories are more lasting and precious than the WS win in 1995 (although I won't deny that was a lot of fun). So my choice is for meaningful baseball in September year after year.

[nsacpi]

Murray Chase has a great account of what for me is the most memorable game during my years as a Braves fan. I'm sure everyone has their own most memorable game.

The Atlanta Braves tonight staged the kind of comeback that produces championships. The comeback might even be a sign, if you believe in that sort of thing.

"I don't believe in that stuff," Bobby Cox, the Atlanta manager, said. "I believe in good players."

The Braves had some of those, too, as they overcame Cincinnati's six-run outburst in the first inning and edged the Reds, 7-6, on David Justice's electrifying two-run home run against Rob Dibble in the ninth inning.

The stunning turnaround kept the Braves one game behind the Los Angeles Dodgers, who defeated San Diego, 3-1, in the National League West race. Each team has only four games to play and could be headed for a one-game playoff in Los Angeles next Monday.

The Braves' latest contribution to the scintillating race was highly improbable. The Reds, the fallen World Series champions, battered Charlie Leibrandt in the first inning, with Joe Oliver hitting a grand slam for the climax of the early eruption.

Justice estimated the odds for a Braves' comeback at "about a billion to one."

But Lou Piniella, who has made a life study of racetrack odds, did not find the circumstances so dire.

"We've lost a few games this way this year," the Cincinnati manager said. "Dibble's been struggling. They've been hitting him."
It wasn't just Dibble, though, whom the Braves overcame. Cox was concerned about Jose Rijo, "one of the best pitchers in baseball," and also "one of the best bullpens in baseball."
"And they had eight more innings to score runs," he added.
Not to be overlooked in the ecstasy of the unlikely comeback of the Braves' hitters was the performance of the Braves' pitchers. Leibrandt, who pitched only two more innings, and four relievers -- Pete Smith, Mike Bielecki, Mike Stanton and Alejandro Pena -- stymied the Reds on three hits in the last eight innings.
Meanwhile, the Braves pecked away at Rijo and Norm Charlton, the Reds' first reliever, and were only one run down when the ninth inning began.
Mark Lemke led off the ninth and stroked a single to center field. Deion Sanders, on vacation from the Atlanta Falcons, ran for him and stole second. Terry Pendleton, who collected four hits in his first four times at bat, was the next batter, but he hit a harmless fly to center for the first out.

"Pick me up," Pendleton told Justice as they passed between the plate and the on-deck circle.

"I was trying to pump myself up," Justice related later, "and I said, 'O.K., I'll pick you up.' "

Justice, a Cincinnati native, needed to pick himself up. In the seventh inning, after successive run-scoring singles by Lemke and Pendleton against Charlton slashed the Reds' lead to 6-5, Justice swung at Charlton's first pitch to him and hit a foul pop behind the plate for the first out.

"I didn't do the job there," Justice said, "but I guess I redeemed myself in the ninth."

Facing the flame-throwing Dibble, Justice instantly extinguished the pitcher's heat, driving his first pitch, a fastball "right down the middle," over the right-field fence.

"I pulled a muscle in my back jumping up and down in the dugout," Mark Grant, an Atlanta pitcher, said.

The Reds still had a chance to tie or win the game, but Pena, the Braves' latest closer, retired them on two grounders and a strikeout. Pena, acquired from the Mets Aug. 29, got his ninth save in nine save opportunities for the Braves.

The Reds' relievers obviously were not as effective. The first was Charlton, who had been ordered reinstated by Bill White, the National League president, from a seven-day suspension in the interest of fairness to both teams in the race. He replaced Rijo after the starter, who had a 9-0 record at home and the lowest earned run average in the league (2.32), gave up a pinch-hit single to Jeff Treadway and walked Lonnie Smith with no one out in the seventh.

Lemke drove in one run with a 400-foot single over Mariano Duncan's head in center field. Pendleton, who had hit a home run in the fifth, singled across another. Justice popped up, but Charlton threw a wild pitch, putting runners at second and third. He walked Ron Gant intentionally, then struck out Brian Hunter. Greg Olson hit a wicked line drive that appeared to be headed into left field for a two- or three-run double, but Chris Sabo made a leaping catch for the third out.

As it turned out, Sabo only interrupted -- he did not end -- the Braves' remarkable comeback.

[Carp]

I would look back at those 90's teams quite differently had we not won a WS in 95.

I see both sides of the argument, but considering the last 10 years, if I could have been a Royals fan or Dodgers fan over this time, I would choose the Royals. A WS win for a fan base that is used to losing seems far more satisfying than watching your team get kicked out of the playoffs on a yearly basis.

Now obviously, we can't guarantee a WS so the point is moot, but I would take a guaranteed WS win proceeded by 5-6 years of floundering/rebuliding vs 6 straight playoff exits.

[57Brave]

Murray Chase has a great account of what for me is the most memorable game during my years as a Braves fan. I'm sure everyone has their own most memorable game.

The Atlanta Braves tonight staged the kind of comeback that produces championships. The comeback might even be a sign, if you believe in that sort of thing.

"I don't believe in that stuff," Bobby Cox, the Atlanta manager, said. "I believe in good players."

The Braves had some of those, too, as they overcame Cincinnati's six-run outburst in the first inning and edged the Reds, 7-6, on David Justice's electrifying two-run home run against Rob Dibble in the ninth inning.

The stunning turnaround kept the Braves one game behind the Los Angeles Dodgers, who defeated San Diego, 3-1, in the National League West race. Each team has only four games to play and could be headed for a one-game playoff in Los Angeles next Monday.

The Braves' latest contribution to the scintillating race was highly improbable. The Reds, the fallen World Series champions, battered Charlie Leibrandt in the first inning, with Joe Oliver hitting a grand slam for the climax of the early eruption.

Justice estimated the odds for a Braves' comeback at "about a billion to one."

But Lou Piniella, who has made a life study of racetrack odds, did not find the circumstances so dire.

"We've lost a few games this way this year," the Cincinnati manager said. "Dibble's been struggling. They've been hitting him."
It wasn't just Dibble, though, whom the Braves overcame. Cox was concerned about Jose Rijo, "one of the best pitchers in baseball," and also "one of the best bullpens in baseball."
"And they had eight more innings to score runs," he added.
Not to be overlooked in the ecstasy of the unlikely comeback of the Braves' hitters was the performance of the Braves' pitchers. Leibrandt, who pitched only two more innings, and four relievers -- Pete Smith, Mike Bielecki, Mike Stanton and Alejandro Pena -- stymied the Reds on three hits in the last eight innings.
Meanwhile, the Braves pecked away at Rijo and Norm Charlton, the Reds' first reliever, and were only one run down when the ninth inning began.
Mark Lemke led off the ninth and stroked a single to center field. Deion Sanders, on vacation from the Atlanta Falcons, ran for him and stole second. Terry Pendleton, who collected four hits in his first four times at bat, was the next batter, but he hit a harmless fly to center for the first out.

"Pick me up," Pendleton told Justice as they passed between the plate and the on-deck circle.

"I was trying to pump myself up," Justice related later, "and I said, 'O.K., I'll pick you up.' "

Justice, a Cincinnati native, needed to pick himself up. In the seventh inning, after successive run-scoring singles by Lemke and Pendleton against Charlton slashed the Reds' lead to 6-5, Justice swung at Charlton's first pitch to him and hit a foul pop behind the plate for the first out.

"I didn't do the job there," Justice said, "but I guess I redeemed myself in the ninth."

Facing the flame-throwing Dibble, Justice instantly extinguished the pitcher's heat, driving his first pitch, a fastball "right down the middle," over the right-field fence.

"I pulled a muscle in my back jumping up and down in the dugout," Mark Grant, an Atlanta pitcher, said.

The Reds still had a chance to tie or win the game, but Pena, the Braves' latest closer, retired them on two grounders and a strikeout. Pena, acquired from the Mets Aug. 29, got his ninth save in nine save opportunities for the Braves.

The Reds' relievers obviously were not as effective. The first was Charlton, who had been ordered reinstated by Bill White, the National League president, from a seven-day suspension in the interest of fairness to both teams in the race. He replaced Rijo after the starter, who had a 9-0 record at home and the lowest earned run average in the league (2.32), gave up a pinch-hit single to Jeff Treadway and walked Lonnie Smith with no one out in the seventh.

Lemke drove in one run with a 400-foot single over Mariano Duncan's head in center field. Pendleton, who had hit a home run in the fifth, singled across another. Justice popped up, but Charlton threw a wild pitch, putting runners at second and third. He walked Ron Gant intentionally, then struck out Brian Hunter. Greg Olson hit a wicked line drive that appeared to be headed into left field for a two- or three-run double, but Chris Sabo made a leaping catch for the third out.

As it turned out, Sabo only interrupted -- he did not end -- the Braves' remarkable comeback.

we attended a wife banquet that night. Heard the first inning on the radio thinkng oh well, get um tomorrow. We went inside where a small man came to me with his hand outstretched to introduce himself "hello, I am Red Barber".
We left the banquet picking up the game in the 8th getting home in time for Justice HR.
I still remember where I was in our house

I seem to remember a catch by Otis Nixon in that game -
Confusing it with another from that season ?
........

Red Barber walked across a room to introduce himself to me!!!
What a gentleman

[bravesfanforlife88]

AA said on 680 just a little bit ago they had made a proposal to a team for a starter they felt was an “overpay” and the other team countered “well north” of the braves offer. At that point AA decided to pass and focus on the pen

[nsacpi]

AA said on 680 just a little bit ago they had made a proposal to a team for a starter they felt was an “overpay” and the other team countered “well north” of the braves offer. At that point AA decided to pass and focus on the pen

Similar quote from Andrew Friedman of the Dodgers:

“If you expect to win a deal from a value standpoint in July, you’re not going to make deals. We made plenty of offers that were definitely underwater from a value standpoint but felt good about making because of the team that we have.”

Having a good sense of value is a great anchor and the smart front offices are willing to depart from it, but only up to a certain point. Only the Dave Stewarts will back up the truck.

[Heyward]

AA said on 680 just a little bit ago they had made a proposal to a team for a starter they felt was an “overpay” and the other team countered “well north” of the braves offer. At that point AA decided to pass and focus on the pen

I'm guessing this is from the Mets over Wheeler.

Talking Chop guys said a writer from Yahoo said they wanted Wright or Anderson for Wheeler.

[Enscheff]

It's fair for fans to wish their FO did more to win in any particular year. I was one who criticized AA this off season for not doing enough, and I criticized him again yesterday for not filling enough needs at the deadline. However, he has the team on their way to a 2nd straight divisional title and October baseball, so it's hard to feel justified in that criticism.

Watching baseball objectively improves my life because it is a cheap source of entertainment from March through September, and hopefully into October.

A winning team that is fun to watch all those months isn't an appreciably less valuable amount entertainment if the season ends in early October vs late October. Actually seeing them win the WS would be cool, but looking at a flag isn't something that provides continuing entertainment value. Once the final game is over I still have to sit through winter with no baseball to watch.

On the other hand, a team that pushes all it's chips in for a particular season and becomes terrible in later years as a result leads to poor entertainment in those years. So much so that I probably won't even bother watching, and I certainly won't be entertained looking at some banner commemorating a feat accomplished years ago.

So yeah, give me the team I can watch for months year after year rather than some flash in the pan like the Marlins. I guarantee no Marlins fans are still entertained by their forever flying flags.

[SJ24]

It's fair for fans to wish their FO did more to win in any particular year. I was one who criticized AA this off season for not doing enough, and I criticized him again yesterday for not filling enough needs at the deadline. However, he has the team on their way to a 2nd straight divisional title and October baseball, so it's hard to feel justified in that criticism.

Watching baseball objectively improves my life because it is a cheap source of entertainment from March through September, and hopefully into October.

A winning team that is fun to watch all those months isn't an appreciably less valuable amount entertainment if the season ends in early October vs late October. Actually seeing them win the WS would be cool, but looking at a flag isn't something that provides continuing entertainment value. Once the final game is over I still have to sit through winter with no baseball to watch.

On the other hand, a team that pushes all it's chips in for a particular season and becomes terrible in later years as a result leads to poor entertainment in those years. So much so that I probably won't even bother watching, and I certainly won't be entertained looking at some banner commemorating a feat accomplished years ago.

So yeah, give me the team I can watch for months year after year rather than some flash in the pan like the Marlins. I guarantee no Marlins fans are still entertained by their forever flying flags.

You said your opinion is objectively true, when it is subjective. Deeeerppp!!!

You just miss the boat completely.

You have never won **** at any level, so you don't know how important it is. For members of the team, their families, the city, the fans- there's nothing like it. Creating memories and having pride is what it's all about. It's not just as simple as "looking at a flag"

[Super]

You said your opinion is objectively true, when it is subjective. Deeeerppp!!!

You just miss the boat completely.

You have never won **** at any level, so you don't know how important it is. For members of the team, their families, the city, the fans- there's nothing like it. Creating memories and having pride is what it's all about. It's not just as simple as "looking at a flag"

he said it objectively improves *his* life. that's not subjective. if he had said it objectively improves everyone's life, it's a different story.
i'd rather have a chance to win for 8 years than push all my chips in for one year, which guarantees absolutely nothing, and limit my chances. it's ok. you don't understand how these things work, and numbers are hard. perhaps when daddy doesn't have to wipe your bottom anymore, you'll be able to grasp it better.

[BeanieAntics]

You said your opinion is objectively true, when it is subjective. Deeeerppp!!!

You just miss the boat completely.

You have never won **** at any level, so you don't know how important it is. For members of the team, their families, the city, the fans- there's nothing like it. Creating memories and having pride is what it's all about. It's not just as simple as "looking at a flag"

I swear, I think its impossible for you to create a sentence that doesn't contain some worn out cliche. I feel like I'm reading one of those Reader's Digest that my grandmother keeps in her bathroom.

[Super]

I swear, I think its impossible for you to create a sentence that doesn't contain some worn out cliche. I feel like I'm reading one of those Reader's Digest that my grandmother keeps in her bathroom.

he thinks Friday Night Lights is real life.
CLEAR EYES. FULL HEARTS. TRADE ALL THE PROSPECTS. CAN'T LOSE.

[SJ24]

he said it objectively improves *his* life. that's not subjective. if he had said it objectively improves everyone's life, it's a different story.
i'd rather have a chance to win for 8 years than push all my chips in for one year, which guarantees absolutely nothing, and limit my chances. it's ok. you don't understand how these things work, and numbers are hard. perhaps when daddy doesn't have to wipe your bottom anymore, you'll be able to grasp it better.

Nice sig. Proved to be true. You're really smart.