GDT 8/25: K For the S

[Southcack77]

Again, you're missing the point in regards to Britton and Ottavino. You asked "Who would you have signed?" I answered about who I would have signed, and those were the 2 I wanted most in the off-season. And they are doing the best among the big name closers signed. And despite that, signing one of them wasn't our only option.

Holland finished pretty great with the Nats last year and has a much better track record than pretty much any of our relievers coming into the season. Ditto for Clippard and Diekman in regards to track record. And the best thing about all of them was that they came cheap.

Yes I know Norris hasn't done anything in 2019. The point was, he and guys like Homer Bailey, Francisco Liriano, etc., were guys we could/should have brought in along with Tomlin because the risk was minimal.. Just release them if they aren't making the cut.

Greg Holland is specifically a guy I suggested the Braves might pursue this spring. Romo was another. I thought they needed more veteran help. My plan wouldn't have worked too well. Holland has been released by a contender this season and I would Romo was a mixed bag.

If the Braves had spent resources on those guys in the spring those are resources that could not have been deployed at the deadline. At least they knew the guys they were acquiring at the deadline had been in command of their talents this season.

Granted, I think moving Wentz and Allard and taking on dollars was actually a bit costly, but they cycled through a ton of internal options before landing there. It feels like that was the right way to go.

[Carp]

i'm not missing the point.
those two signed for big money. risky contracts. Britton really hasn't been all that great, anyway, and his overall numbers don't bode well for the future.
you want Britton for 3/39 after looking at the totality of his numbers this year? big yikes from me.
3 years for any RP, much less one 33+, is a bad idea. as well as he's pitching this year, Ottavino could just as easily tank the next 2 years and that would hurt the Braves. AA was smart to stay away.
track record means extremely little to me with aging RPs.

Again, you asked and I answered about who I wanted to sign without the benefit of hindsight. They have performed well this year, but yes there is clearly risk associated with them. I completely agree with that.

[Super]

Again, you asked and I answered about who I wanted to sign without the benefit of hindsight. They have performed well this year, but yes there is clearly risk associated with them. I completely agree with that.

did you want to sign them even after they got 3 year deals for $27M and $39M? obviously i would've taken either of them at a good cost and less years. but that isn't what they got.
and i still take issue with saying Britton has pitched well. he's bound to explode with those peripherals.

[Carp]

3/39 is indeed bit much for Britton coming off his injury. I probably would have been uneasy giving him that despite my desire to sign him this past offseason. As far as his current numbers, only his walks are drastically different than his career averages. Certainly I wouldn't expect him to maintain a low ERA with 5+ BB/9, but BBs/9 tend to fluctuate from year to year, especially for relievers.

I'd have been fine offering Ottavino 3/27.

This isn't to say AA completely botched the pen. But it's completely fair to say AA probably should have done more to improve the pen this past offseason. It's understandable that no one could for see the amount of injuries/poor performance we've seen from last year's group. But it's also fair to say that last year's pen wasn't all that great in the 1st place.

[nsacpi]

3/39 is indeed bit much for Britton coming off his injury. I probably would have been uneasy giving him that despite my desire to sign him this past offseason. As far as his current numbers, only his walks are drastically different than his career averages. Certainly I wouldn't expect him to maintain a low ERA with 5+ BB/9, but BBs/9 tend to fluctuate from year to year, especially for relievers.

I'd have been fine offering Ottavino 3/27.

This isn't to say AA completely botched the pen. But it's completely fair to say AA probably should have done more to improve the pen this past offseason. It's understandable that no one could for see the amount of injuries/poor performance we've seen from last year's group. But it's also fair to say that last year's pen wasn't all that great in the 1st place.

But also as a strategic plan, it makes sense to underinvest in the pen a little at the start of the season given the volatility of bullpen arms.

[Super]

But also as a strategic plan, it makes sense to underinvest in the pen a little at the start of the season given the volatility of bullpen arms.

yeah.
David Robertson had a track record and had never been hurt.
boom. ineffective, out for year. less total dollars than Ottavino got. less years. still not looking good.

[Enscheff]

"Yeah but"...

AA has shown why investing in the BP early is a fool's errand, and it's best to cycle through internal options (Newk and Jackson emerged as reliable arms) and add later in the year as needed (Blevins, Swarzak, Melancon, Greene, Martin...all effective contributors). Anyone still arguing otherwise is stubbornly keeping their heads in the sand to avoid learning something new.

[Carp]

But also as a strategic plan, it makes sense to underinvest in the pen a little at the start of the season given the volatility of bullpen arms.

And I'm fine with that. Going cheap on the BP is smart thing to do given the volatility of BP arms. But adding more options at cheap prices doesn't really deviate from that plan.