No, today was a big enough decision on the national stage that he'll get heat. At least last year the excuse was that everything was focused on the infield fly rule call. Nothing to hide behind this year.Originally Posted by drewdat
Of course doesn't help that DOB and the like are already defending the decision to not use kimbrel
Wren is the beneficiary of a good drafting system. He's been pretty ****ing awful as a GM. Too bad we didn't have Ryan Dempster this year for the cherry on top of his awfulness.
Chris Johnson is the best thing he's done and that was an accident.
Not firing Fredi after that epic choke job two years ago was it. I knew they were never really going to be serious about winning.
Maybe it's time to go outside the organization for a new manager hell I wouldn't mind Charlie Manuel
Still blows my mind that some are placing all the blame on Gonzalez and none at all on the players on the field who are paid to do their jobs.
Chopping With The Braves And Rolling With The Tide
ChapelHillMatt (10-08-2013), IowaBrave14 (10-08-2013), jdunn (10-08-2013), kingphatcow (10-08-2013)
I think Fredi probably needs to go. Because, I think he lost his team tonight, and what's that old saying: You cant fire the players.
Braves1976 (10-08-2013), Dalyn (10-08-2013), Krovahn (10-08-2013), NYCBrave (10-09-2013), The Chosen One (10-08-2013)
They need to find a way to fire Uggla and BJ.
I will probably be the only guy here to defend Fredi at this moment in time.
We found a way to win 96 games this year despite the fact our two highest paid players had historically historically terribly awful seasons. We lost our veteran leader on the pitching staff, we lost two of our best bullpen arms early, we had plenty of DL stints for many of our guys. Lost Heyward for 2 months worth of ball games.
Unfortunately, our players didn't show up when it counted. Medlen let us down, McCann let us down, Teheran let us down, to an extent so did Heyward (his homerun was meaningless), Justin, Freddie, Carpenter...
I strongly disagree to those of you that say the players don't respect him and that we won 96 games in spit of Fredi. If the guys don't respect Fredi, the clubhouse would've broken down months ago and we probably don't make the playoffs at all.
We started out the season 18th in MLB Payroll, the Nationals and Phillies far ahead of us. We won our division.
Because our team didn't perform in the playoffs even remotely like we did in the regular season, every one of Fredi's moves are examined under the microscope even MORE.
Our starting pitching let us down sans Minor and Freddy who nobody gave a chance. Carpenter, one of our best relievers all year blew it.
Even more disappointing, we were the NL leader in homeruns all season, and this series we hit only 1 (which was about as meaningless as you can think of in a 13-4 ball game). We were the MLB leader in runs allowed and had the best ERA... and our pitching let us down too.
Forever Fredi
57Brave (10-08-2013), CrimsonCowboy (10-08-2013), gtcway (10-08-2013), IowaBrave14 (10-08-2013), Mrs. Meta (10-08-2013), MURF21 (10-08-2013), NYCBrave (10-09-2013), Runnin (10-08-2013)
Another ignorant move people ignored: No Varvaro. What a great season he had.
The assinine thing about last nights decision for Carpenter over Kimbrel was that Fredi admitted he was going to bring Kimbrel in during the eight for a 4 out save. Okay. So likely the most dominant late innings pitcher in baseball is good to go 4 outs but 6 outs is a stretch?
And that wasn't the first hanger that Carpenter threw in that at bat. He hung another one in the same spot but Uribe bunted it foul. The moment was just too big for Carpenter and his choke job helped him make a goat of himself on the biggest stage of his life. There's no redeeming yourself after throwing that cement mixer is such a big spot.
People act like the playoff roster was Fredi's decision alone and the rest of the front office was at the beach or something. Guessing here there was a room full of experienced MLB scouts , Wren, Gonzalez and Bobby / Schuerholtz sitting at the table putting the roster together. Benching your highest paid player is not a flip decision made by just one person. My little knowledge of corporate structure tells me that was a decision made much higher in the organization than the field manager.
you could argue right or wrong until the cows come home but to use roster decisions as a basis of releasing a manager that just won 96 games is fandom at it's most ignorant.
As far as the decision to not use Kimbrell in the 8th - I'd guess again that decision was made when formulating the game plan. A game plan that has worked well all season
I lived through years of Red Sox collapses, the great collapse of 2011 and go back to the Phillies blowing it in '64. (Talk about a heartbreak)
Firing Gonzalez would be foolish - shoot if the Phils didn't fire Gene Mauch after that mess ... still rankles me
The Varvaro love some people have escapes me. He always looks to me like he is skating on thin ice. And the 4.19 xFIP suggests luck rather than greatness as the primary factor behind the 2.82 ERA.
Scoscia may be available.
Not to mention it isn't hard to win with this team's talent.
I want to more than Fredi or anyone get someone in here who'll get our OF running. Schafer was our only SB threat and I want that fixed. Jason should be swiping 10 bags a year, Justin 20 and Bossman 30 and none of thme sniffed those numbers. That cannot stay. We were more or less a station to station baseball team and we cannot have that. Need to pressure the pitcher more.
If Julio doesn't crap the bed, we're still playing baseball. But yeah bringing in Carpenter to face 2 of the hotter hitters in the series was really dumb. Kimbrel for the8th then you throw the sink out there in the 9th.
Stockholm, more densely populated than NYC - sturg
Like Bobby, Fredi is just a 162 game manager and a good one. Just like Bobby with good pitching staffs to shut teams down, they seem to forget how to manage and just manage like they did the 162 games. We have been in the playoffs more than anyone except the Yankees since 1991 and we have one, JUST ONE, JUST ONE WS ring. It is the mindset of our previous coach and his protege to not think beyond 162 games. Until we break that yoke of just glad to get there with dominant pitching staffs (our stable or Cy Youngers) and this generation of heavy hitters with good pitching, the manager in question made the wrong call, not thinking outside of the box, but thinking like a 162 game manager. There is NO TOMORROW when you are in the playoffs. You play to win. You do not have another game to make up.
Get rid of Fredi, not because he is not a good manager, he is for players and for the 162 game schedule, but he is no elite manager that pushes the right buttons in the playoffs because he got it from his teacher Bobby.
Fredi and Uggla should've known how to pitch to Hanley Ramirez.
That is hilarious. There's not 1 chance in 100 that Fredi or any manager for that matter would do something so unorthodox.
All Carpenter did was struggle a bit and by then he'd given up 2 runs.
In game decisions are much less important that the daily presence for the team. You actually want an upbeat, overly-loyal, consistent to a fault type for a manager. The hardass, cut-throat, win-at-all-costs type of manager most of Fredi's haters seem to want would be rejected by the team before the end of April.
Really? How do you think the team feels about Kimbrel not being in the game? I know one guy that isn't happy.
Dalyn (10-08-2013)
Funny? Why does you closer have to pitch the 9th inning and only the 9th inning? Why can't we expect our manager to be a little unorthodox in a playoff elimination game?
He needs to be fired. He was a terrible manager and we needed a change before the post season. Just strengthened my believes. Its not going to happen though.
But he's not the only reason we lost. We lost because yet again McCann has never showed up in the playoffs and Heyward and Justin were non-existent.
Fire Uggla, Upton, Teheran, Carpenter, Wood, Johnson, Gattis and MCCann. And Beachy. And Hudson.
I don't blame him for the game 4 loss. O'Flaherty, Venters and Walden were all hurt. Had to use Avilan to get through the heart of the order in the 7th. After that you just had to hope Carpenter could get through Puig and then essentially it should have been clear sailing from there.
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