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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skeeter31 View Post
    I still don't understand when people say Julio will be in decline. Julio is only 26. He's 1 year older than Folty and 2 years older than Blair and Wisler. It's not like he's some 31 year old vet. He was brought up young and I think we forget how young he still is. Unless Julio turns it around and can get us a good haul in a trade, I'd rather keep him and his rather serviceable contract.
    I go after pitching. I actually think our offense will continue to come and we have legit players in the minor leagues that could make an impact soon than later -- Acuna, Albies and D.Pete come to mind. I think we need to attack the pitching market and find a pitcher to fill a need. Spend money, stop being so damn closed-fisted and get someone. I really like the idea of Darvish.


    Next year: Darvish, Teheran, Folty, Newcomb, Sims is really solid.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Skeeter31 View Post
    I still don't understand when people say Julio will be in decline. Julio is only 26. He's 1 year older than Folty and 2 years older than Blair and Wisler. It's not like he's some 31 year old vet. He was brought up young and I think we forget how young he still is. Unless Julio turns it around and can get us a good haul in a trade, I'd rather keep him and his rather serviceable contract.
    Julio is now sandwiching two bad years between one good one. His control and velocity are down. I feel we missed our chance last year or during the offseason to move him. My prediction is that by the time he gets to the bigger money years in his contract....we won't want him. I hope I'm wrong...I really do. You are right though, at his age he should just be coming into his prime. He should be trending up or a least near the peak of his career. Do you see that? No....not at all. My feeling is that we have probably witnessed his peak. When you look at our pitchers coming up...you can name 10 with better stuff. I have a feeling, he may block someone better than he, before his contract is up.

  3. #23
    It's OVER 5,000! UNCBlue012's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBravos View Post
    Julio is now sandwiching two bad years between one good one. His control and velocity are down. I feel we missed our chance last year or during the offseason to move him. My prediction is that by the time he gets to the bigger money years in his contract....we won't want him. I hope I'm wrong...I really do. You are right though, at his age he should just be coming into his prime. He should be trending up or a least near the peak of his career. Do you see that? No....not at all. My feeling is that we have probably witnessed his peak. When you look at our pitchers coming up...you can name 10 with better stuff. I have a feeling, he may block someone better than he, before his contract is up.
    TWO bad years? You mean a meh year and another month of bad starts. It's so early, but he has so much time to improve. Jeez, people. I do agree with moving him, though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by UNCBlue012 View Post
    TWO bad years? You mean a meh year and another month of bad starts. It's so early, but he has so much time to improve. Jeez, people. I do agree with moving him, though.
    Look, I hold him to higher a standard because he is "supposed" to be our ACE (I realize he isn't an ACE), our stopper, our best guy. Right now he has the fourth worst ERA of our staryers, only beating out Colon and that's fourth worst ERA on the staff with the HIGHEST ERA in baseball 😳

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    Trading Kemp comes up at least once a day. Still one thing to consider. He offers protection in batting order for Freeman. Not saying that they shouldn't attempt to part ways, if there's a potential market, but for those who insist that they have complete grasps of "value," it's something to consider.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Knucksie View Post
    Trading Kemp comes up at least once a day. Still one thing to consider. He offers protection in batting order for Freeman. Not saying that they shouldn't attempt to part ways, if there's a potential market, but for those who insist that they have complete grasps of "value," it's something to consider.
    I really like Kemp. If we were in a position to win anything in this year or next I would say keep him. We are not, and at his age...his numbers are likely to steadily decline (not a huge drop off though). Getting $20 million off the books for the next three years and getting prospects would be a win/win for a guy that won't be around to be useful when we need him to be. Getting $20 mil off the books and getting prospects back would almost completely erase the HO trade disaster. The more I type, the more it makes total sense to flip Kemp at the deadline 🤔

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBravos View Post
    Look, I hold him to higher a standard because he is "supposed" to be our ACE (I realize he isn't an ACE), our stopper, our best guy. Right now he has the fourth worst ERA of our staryers, only beating out Colon and that's fourth worst ERA on the staff with the HIGHEST ERA in baseball 😳
    And every year Julio turns it around and stabilizes the crap he's typically surrounded with. I have always disagreed with the "trade him" crowd although I know it's inevitable....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Deester11 View Post
    And every year Julio turns it around and stabilizes the crap he's typically surrounded with. I have always disagreed with the "trade him" crowd although I know it's inevitable....
    I'm not saying I dislike him. He has been one of our main trade chips though in an area that should be a strength. I agree also that trading him is inevitable, so why wait until his contract holds less value and risk him getting hurt in the process. We already have the worst ERA in baseball and the #27th ranked last year, so him being on the staff doesn't make much of a difference. If they traded Kimbrel, they should sure as the sun shines trade Julio.

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    Expects Yuge Games nsacpi's Avatar
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    As with all hypothetical trades, the question is one of return. I still value Julion as a 3 win player. If another club offered a package that effectively values him as a 4 win player, I would say "Sold!" Otherwise, I hold on to him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nsacpi View Post
    As with all hypothetical trades, the question is one of return. I still value Julion as a 3 win player. If another club offered a package that effectively values him as a 4 win player, I would say "Sold!" Otherwise, I hold on to him.
    The problem is....that package was probably there at the trade deadline last year and "maybe" in the offseason. The market will most likely be flooded with sellers this year and Julio isn't pitching near what he was last year (so far). I'm afraid that ship has sailed, and we will not garner any trade close to consider moving him. It's a shame, because Julio is a good pitcher and I like him. He isn't an ACE that you build your staff around. We could have probably gotten a package that would far exceed Julio's value. Of course, that's speculation and I really have no idea if anything like that was offered. Seeing what deals went down at the deadline though and knowing Julio's contract value....

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBravos View Post
    The problem is....that package was probably there at the trade deadline last year and "maybe" in the offseason. The market will most likely be flooded with sellers this year and Julio isn't pitching near what he was last year (so far). I'm afraid that ship has sailed, and we will not garner any trade close to consider moving him. It's a shame, because Julio is a good pitcher and I like him. He isn't an ACE that you build your staff around. We could have probably gotten a package that would far exceed Julio's value. Of course, that's speculation and I really have no idea if anything like that was offered. Seeing what deals went down at the deadline though and knowing Julio's contract value....
    If that ship has sailed, then I would want to hold on to him

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBravos View Post
    I really like Kemp. If we were in a position to win anything in this year or next I would say keep him. We are not, and at his age...his numbers are likely to steadily decline (not a huge drop off though). Getting $20 million off the books for the next three years and getting prospects would be a win/win for a guy that won't be around to be useful when we need him to be. Getting $20 mil off the books and getting prospects back would almost completely erase the HO trade disaster. The more I type, the more it makes total sense to flip Kemp at the deadline ��
    You don't have to explain it or rehash it, because pretty much everybody here should understand the situation. It's dealing with pure speculation here, as there may not even be much of a market for Kemp anyway. Everybody keeps bringing up HO constantly, but it's a minor miracle that it was possible to get anything at that juncture. During previous attempts to shop Olivera, recall that another GM was quoted as saying "I can't believe that they even asked." That should tell you something. So clearly the Padres didn't have a whole lot of leverage either

    Point is, it's not as simple as "trade him to get the numbers out of the book!" It was bad contract for bad contract that GM's do as professional courtesy to each other to establish working relationships with their peers. Hunch is that the Braves were entering into that agreement, knowing that they were going to assume the responsibility, and just being relieved that a portion of the contract was being paid.

    Here's a great analysis by DOB from last year:
    http://atlantabraves.blog.ajc.com/20...se-for-braves/

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    Quote Originally Posted by Knucksie View Post
    You don't have to explain it or rehash it, because pretty much everybody here should understand the situation. It's dealing with pure speculation here, as there may not even be much of a market for Kemp anyway. Everybody keeps bringing up HO constantly, but it's a minor miracle that it was possible to get anything at that juncture. During previous attempts to shop Olivera, recall that another GM was quoted as saying "I can't believe that they even asked." That should tell you something. So clearly the Padres didn't have a whole lot of leverage either

    Point is, it's not as simple as "trade him to get the numbers out of the book!" It was bad contract for bad contract that GM's do as professional courtesy to each other to establish working relationships with their peers. Hunch is that the Braves were entering into that agreement, knowing that they were going to assume the responsibility, and just being relieved that a portion of the contract was being paid.

    Here's a great analysis by DOB from last year:
    http://atlantabraves.blog.ajc.com/20...se-for-braves/
    They didn't get anything for Oliveira. The Padres agreed to eat Hector's salary if Atlanta would take Kemp. He was immediately cut.

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    First of all, the Braves could have made that trade without HO. They made some serious lemonade though, and I was one that thought it was a good decision. I am not one of those on here that dislike Kemp.

    This reminds me very much if the BJ contract. The Padres took on a untouchable contract in a trade....BJ snapped out of it, began to look more like his former self. The Padres were able to move him. Now they still ate a good bit of the contract, but I feel Kemp would be VERY valuable to a AL team as a DH. The question would be if he was 20 million a year valuable?? Probably not. Let's say we were willing to cover half of what is owed to him...then I think you could very much get something very good in return, because Kemp at 10 mil a year would be a very reasonable amount for what he would bring as a DH.

    Now the devil is in the details. There has to be that team that really needs "that" type of guy, BUT if you are that team....no option out there would likely come close. The right team might take on a good portion of his contract. Either way, let's say it's even half? You are still basically just looking at the HO dead money and it would be like we flipped HO for prospects (which would be a modern day miracle).

    Think of it this way. You are a AL team that is a good DH away from truely contending. You have a pretty tight payroll, and are limited in what you can spend. You inquire about Kemp (knowing your limitations). Coppy says "I'll tell you what, we are rebuilding and need young prospects. You make it right prospect wise, and heck...I'll cover 75% of all of Kemp's contract." You counter, "I will need you to cover the whole contract, but I can make it up to you with the prospects involved...my budget is limited." Coppy says "How many highly rated lefties do you have??". Ha!!!

    If Coppy is willing to get creative (And he always does).Kemp is playing well enough (assuming he stays as he is), that we can work it to our advantage

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    Free Agents for everything but 1st and SS:

    Second Basemen
    Jose Altuve *
    Alexi Amarista *
    Darwin Barney
    Andres Blanco
    Asdrubal Cabrera *
    Daniel Descalso *
    Stephen Drew
    Danny Espinosa
    Ryan Flaherty
    Logan Forsythe *
    Howie Kendrick
    Ian Kinsler *
    Brett Lawrie
    Jed Lowrie *
    Eduardo Nunez
    Cliff Pennington
    Brandon Phillips
    Adam Rosales
    Neil Walker


    Third Basemen
    Yunel Escobar
    Ryan Flaherty
    Todd Frazier
    Mike Moustakas
    Trevor Plouffe
    Danny Valencia

    Catchers
    Alex Avila
    Welington Castillo
    Hank Conger
    A.J. Ellis
    Tyler Flowers *
    Ryan Hanigan
    Nick Hundley
    Chris Iannetta
    Jose Lobaton
    Jonathan Lucroy
    Miguel Montero
    Brayan Pena
    Rene Rivera
    Carlos Ruiz
    Geovany Soto
    Chris Stewart *
    Kurt Suzuki
    Josh Thole
    Matt Wieters
    Bobby Wilson

    Outfielders
    Dustin Ackley
    Nori Aoki
    Jose Bautista *
    Carlos Beltran
    Michael Brantley *
    Jay Bruce
    Melky Cabrera
    Lorenzo Cain
    Josh Collmenter
    Carl Crawford
    Coco Crisp
    Rajai Davis
    Jarrod Dyson
    Andre Ethier *
    Craig Gentry
    Carlos Gomez
    Carlos Gonzalez
    Curtis Granderson
    Franklin Gutierrez
    Matt Holliday
    Austin Jackson
    Jon Jay
    Desmond Jennings
    Hyun-Soo Kim
    J.D. Martinez
    Cameron Maybin
    Andrew McCutchen *
    Daniel Nava
    Colby Rasmus
    Ben Revere
    Michael Saunders *
    Seth Smith
    Ichiro Suzuki
    Justin Upton *
    Melvin Upton
    Jayson Werth
    Chris B. Young

    Starting Pitchers
    Henderson Alvarez
    Brett Anderson
    Jake Arrieta
    Clay Buchholz
    Madison Bumgarner *
    Trevor Cahill
    Matt Cain *
    Andrew Cashner
    Jhoulys Chacin
    Tyler Chatwood
    Jesse Chavez
    Wei-Yin Chen *
    Alex Cobb
    Bartolo Colon
    Johnny Cueto *
    Yu Darvish
    R.A. Dickey
    Nate Eovaldi
    Scott Feldman
    Yovani Gallardo *
    Jaime Garcia
    Matt Garza *
    Gio Gonzalez *
    Miguel Gonzalez
    Jeremy Hellickson
    Derek Holland
    Hisashi Iwakuma *
    Ubaldo Jimenez
    Ian Kennedy *
    John Lackey
    Francisco Liriano
    Jordan Lyles
    Lance Lynn
    Wade Miley *
    Mike Minor *
    Matt Moore *
    Jon Niese
    Ricky Nolasco *
    Martin Perez *
    Michael Pineda
    Clayton Richard
    Tyson Ross
    CC Sabathia
    Chris Sale *
    Anibal Sanchez *
    Hector Santiago
    Masahiro Tanaka *
    Chris Tillman
    Josh Tomlin *
    Jason Vargas
    Jered Weaver
    Chris Young *

    Relief Pitchers
    Matt Albers
    Al Alburquerque
    John Axford
    Andrew Bailey
    Tony Barnette *
    Antonio Bastardo
    Matt Belisle
    Joaquin Benoit
    Jerry Blevins *
    Craig Breslow
    Jonathan Broxton
    Steve Cishek
    Tyler Clippard
    Tim Collins
    Wade Davis
    Brian Duensing
    Zach Duke
    Dana Eveland
    Neftali Feliz
    Charlie Furbush
    Jeanmar Gomez
    Luke Gregerson
    Jason Grilli
    David Hernandez
    Luke Hochevar
    Greg Holland *
    Craig Kimbrel *
    Brandon Kinztler
    Boone Logan *
    Mark Lowe
    Jake McGee
    Dustin McGowan
    Miguel Montero
    Jason Motte
    Pat Neshek
    Juan Nicasio
    Eric O’Flaherty
    Logan Ondrusek *
    Oliver Perez
    Glen Perkins *
    Yusmeiro Petit
    Chad Qualls
    Addison Reed
    Fernando Rodney
    Francisco Rodriguez
    Sergio Romo
    Fernando Salas
    Bryan Shaw
    Joe Smith
    Craig Stammen
    Drew Storen
    Huston Street *
    Anthony Swarzak
    Koji Uehara
    Carlos Villanueva
    Jordan Walden
    Tony Watson
    Tom Wilhelmsen
    "For there is always light, if only we are brave enough to see it. If only we are brave enough to be it." Amanda Gorman

    "When Fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross"

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    This trade deadline could be very, very interesting. We might not get as much for the vets with the flooded market, but we "could" buy more than we trade. Last deadline was probably the exact opposite of this one. I expect this deadline to be BUSY for us.

  19. #37
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    I'm pretty psyched for this year's deadline.

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    It would be beyond moronic for the Braves to pay the contender's premium for guys at the deadline when they aren't contenders.

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    Quote Originally Posted by goldfly View Post
    Free Agents for everything but 1st and SS:

    Second Basemen
    Darwin Barney
    Andres Blanco
    Stephen Drew
    Danny Espinosa
    Ryan Flaherty
    Howie Kendrick
    Brett Lawrie
    Eduardo Nunez
    Cliff Pennington
    Brandon Phillips
    Adam Rosales
    Neil Walker


    Third Basemen
    Yunel Escobar
    Ryan Flaherty
    Todd Frazier
    Mike Moustakas
    Trevor Plouffe
    Danny Valencia

    Catchers
    Alex Avila
    Welington Castillo
    Hank Conger
    A.J. Ellis
    Ryan Hanigan
    Nick Hundley
    Chris Iannetta
    Jose Lobaton
    Jonathan Lucroy
    Miguel Montero
    Brayan Pena
    Rene Rivera
    Carlos Ruiz
    Geovany Soto
    Kurt Suzuki
    Josh Thole
    Matt Wieters
    Bobby Wilson

    Outfielders
    Dustin Ackley
    Nori Aoki
    Carlos Beltran
    Jay Bruce
    Melky Cabrera
    Lorenzo Cain
    Josh Collmenter
    Carl Crawford
    Coco Crisp
    Rajai Davis
    Jarrod Dyson
    Craig Gentry
    Carlos Gomez
    Carlos Gonzalez
    Curtis Granderson
    Franklin Gutierrez
    Matt Holliday
    Austin Jackson
    Jon Jay
    Desmond Jennings
    Hyun-Soo Kim
    J.D. Martinez
    Cameron Maybin
    Daniel Nava
    Colby Rasmus
    Ben Revere
    Seth Smith
    Ichiro Suzuki
    Melvin Upton
    Jayson Werth
    Chris B. Young

    Starting Pitchers
    Henderson Alvarez
    Brett Anderson
    Jake Arrieta
    Clay Buchholz
    Trevor Cahill
    Andrew Cashner
    Jhoulys Chacin
    Tyler Chatwood
    Jesse Chavez
    Alex Cobb
    Bartolo Colon
    Yu Darvish
    R.A. Dickey
    Nate Eovaldi
    Scott Feldman
    Jaime Garcia
    Miguel Gonzalez
    Jeremy Hellickson
    Derek Holland
    Ubaldo Jimenez
    John Lackey
    Francisco Liriano
    Jordan Lyles
    Lance Lynn
    Jon Niese
    Michael Pineda
    Clayton Richard
    Tyson Ross
    CC Sabathia
    Hector Santiago
    Chris Tillman
    Jason Vargas
    Jered Weaver

    Relief Pitchers
    Matt Albers
    Al Alburquerque
    John Axford
    Andrew Bailey
    Antonio Bastardo
    Matt Belisle
    Joaquin Benoit
    Craig Breslow
    Jonathan Broxton
    Steve Cishek
    Tyler Clippard
    Tim Collins
    Wade Davis
    Brian Duensing
    Zach Duke
    Dana Eveland
    Neftali Feliz
    Charlie Furbush
    Jeanmar Gomez
    Luke Gregerson
    Jason Grilli
    David Hernandez
    Luke Hochevar
    Brandon Kinztler
    Mark Lowe
    Jake McGee
    Dustin McGowan
    Miguel Montero
    Jason Motte
    Pat Neshek
    Juan Nicasio
    Eric O’Flaherty
    Oliver Perez
    Yusmeiro Petit
    Chad Qualls
    Addison Reed
    Fernando Rodney
    Francisco Rodriguez
    Sergio Romo
    Fernando Salas
    Bryan Shaw
    Joe Smith
    Craig Stammen
    Drew Storen
    Anthony Swarzak
    Koji Uehara
    Carlos Villanueva
    Jordan Walden
    Tony Watson
    Tom Wilhelmsen
    I think it's helpful to remove the RFA from the list.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Enscheff View Post
    It would be beyond moronic for the Braves to pay the contender's premium for guys at the deadline when they aren't contenders.
    No...not those types of trades of course.

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