Everyone that wants a TOR starter has to look at the Sale package, and then make the equivalent package of Braves prospects.Originally Posted by CrimsonCowboy
Once that package is settled, I think most will be against making the trade.
The Braves aren't acquiring a TOR guy for some package of spare parts, no matter how many times clv posts assinine trade proposals.
Last edited by Enscheff; 06-26-2017 at 11:48 PM.
I'm not going to get involved into any rifts between posters (disagreeing is fine, but I wish the name calling would cease), but I do agree that it will take some good players/prospects to net a guy who can fit at the top of the rotation. Me personally, I don't think Gray would cost as much as Sale did, but no, it won't be cheap. (Note: I personally think Archer in Tampa would get the closest to a Sale type of package).
I was hoping Teheran would become the Braves true ace so we perhaps wouldn't have to think about this, or use the capital the Braves have accumulated in prospects for a bat. But since Julio has taken a huge step back, we no longer can have any assurance, or entertain the thought, of him being the ace. For those who want the Braves to be contenders soon, a deal will have to be done. As good as Newcombe, Sims, Allard, Soroka, or anyone else in the system is, they are not close to being thought of as an ace, TOR, #1 starter.
Again though, I don't think this type of deal will happen before July 31st. After the season is more likely. Of course, even then, is not 100% certain such a deal will take place.
Chopping With The Braves And Rolling With The Tide
All coppy and hart talked about was growing our own pitching bc tor were too expensive for free agency or trade
Why do that now?
Gray is talented but is nowhere close to sale with his injury history.
I may be crazy but I don't think folty, Newcombe, Tehran plus 2 of medlen/dickey/sims/rental vet will be that bad. It's not going to be great but we might be ok.
Viz, minter, jj would be a decent pen if healthy
Finding a decent 3b and upgrading the d would be the biggest bang.
Not giving away Alex wood would be nice too
cajunrevenge (06-27-2017), jpx7 (06-27-2017)
If you can buy cheap I think it's a fine idea.
We're not going to be trading for a TOR SP, at least not anytime in the near future.
Tapate50 (06-27-2017)
No. But I think we'll try to acquire someone who projects to be more productive than the starting pitchers we acquired last off-season. Gray is one possibility. I think the Giants have a couple guys (Cueto and Samardzija) that they might be willing to move and we might be interested in. None are aces, but all would be upgrades for our rotation.
I'm thinking our 2018 rotation would start out like this:
1. Acquisition along the lines discussed above
2. Teheran
3. Dickey
4. Folty
5. Newcomb
"I am a victim, I will tell you. I am a victim."
"I am your retribution."
I've always been a Samardzija guy for some unknown reason, and still think there's an "Ace" in there in the event someone can unlock him. While he's been sneaky good for them this year, you'd still think he'd be better given the park. Given Julio's struggles, I'm not sure how well Shark would handle moving to our bandbox PLUS feeling like he's being asked to front the rotation. I think there's definitely a veteran rotation upgrade in our future, but would personally rather hold onto our pieces and go sign a Lynn or Vargas-type over the winter IF the brass isn't going to go after a front of the rotation guy like Archer or Quintana (which it doesn't seem they will).
Whatever's wrong with Julio is going to continue to be wrong with Julio, Folty just doesn't seem to have the head on his shoulders, and (at least for now) Newcomb doesn't have the third pitch to be a front guy. JMO, but if you're not going to go get an obvious upgrade over the three of them, keep all the arms and HOPE one develops into that guy.
Has there EVER been a statement and question a certain someone should absolutely never have made and asked publicly more than...
Kinda pathetic to see yourself as a message board knight in shining armor. How impotent does someone have to be in real life to resort to playing hero on a message board?
I wouldn't offer any of our top guys in any deal for a starting pitcher. But I would offer a package of 2 or 3 from the next group of prospects. Guys like Touki, Mueller, Suarez, Demeritte, Riley, Sims. Keep in mind that the trade value of some of the pitchers like Cueto and Samardzija is held down to varying extents by their contracts. We would probably not have to give up an elite prospect. And if that turned out to be the price I would pass.
"I am a victim, I will tell you. I am a victim."
"I am your retribution."
clvclv (06-27-2017)
If we don't get one or two #2 type pitchers from all this pitching, then the rebuild failed. We need them to step up in a few years. until then, piece together something to keep this team improving. No need to get impatient now that we are having fun winning some games.. stick to the plan.
Yep, pretty much this.
And not sure why the heck people are talking about Gray like he's an Ace anyway, he's fallen off big time and only has 2 years of control after this one, and even before that he was basically just Julio before he dropped off.
IIRC the consensus was Cueto was opting out this year. If that's the case just go buy Cueto in the off season. We will have a bunch of guys cost controlled on the team. Freeman, Kemp, Tehran, and Neck will be the only ppl making any real money.
As long as Cueto has an ERA above or around 4 he's not going to be opting out of anything. He wouldn't get anywhere close to his current contract the way he's pitching.
I think we should keep what we got and see who develops. You never know which one will exceed expectations. Newcomb very well could become an ace.
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It’s over."
Little Thethe Nov 19, 2020.
We obviously need some really good pitchers to come out of all of this or else it was a failure. My only issue there is that it usually takes a while for a young pitcher to become a consistent #1 or #2. Hardly anyone comes in right away and is great from day 1. Even super highly-touted guys. It doesn't happen right away. We're going to need patience. A lot of it.
there are exceptions but yeah it usually takes a few seasons in the majors before a young pitcher hits his prime...i do think we will need to supplement what we currently have in the system
"I am a victim, I will tell you. I am a victim."
"I am your retribution."
Braves will go into 2018 with Teheran, Folty, Newk, Dickey or some other ~$10M/year FA SP on a 1-2 year deal, and the winner of a battle between Medlen/Wisler/Blair/Sims. Allard, Soroka and Wright will be ready to fill in as early as the trade deadline, though I would like to see the Braves wait to start their clocks until 2019.
That's always been the plan for the rotation. It's why the Braves acquired all these pitchers. There is no reason to deviate from the plan that was set in place 3 years ago just because folks are getting impatient and want to accelerate the window of competitiveness. The Braves should/will not be using significant resources, in trade assets or dollars, to acquire a SP.
cajunrevenge (06-28-2017)
Wonder if Hwang from SF AAA squad could be had to try at 3b?
Ivermectin Man
jpx7 (06-27-2017)
IIRC the Red sox have a couple of 3B prospects who are north of 20, AA or above and blocked by Devers. I don't think either is supposed to be a star but they might be available. Red Sox have shown they'll move prospects...but do we have anyone they want? I'd think they could use an upgrade at 1B and DH.
give them JJ.. that would allow them to slot CK as the setup guy.
jpx7 (06-27-2017)
I just posted the same question in the Tuesday MiLB thread. He is putting up a line of .287/.333/.476 (.810 OPS) in the PCL. That league is insanely hitter friendly, so we could project something closer to a low .700 OPS at the MLB level.
Still might be worth giving him a shot at 3B.
jpx7 (06-27-2017)
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