Originally Posted by rico43
it will only be unforgettable if we carry this over. If we come out and lay a complete egg next season, then we will regret these victories and probably forget about them in haste.
it will only be unforgettable if we carry this over. If we come out and lay a complete egg next season, then we will regret these victories and probably forget about them in haste.
Draft regrets always take the form of who is picked, not where we pick them. There always seems to be someone better that is missed. That's why some of the stat geeks get paid every year to "revisit" past drafts with hindsight guiding the picks.
Just a few players who were drafted 5th overall, since that question will inevitably be asked:
Corey Ray
Kyle Tucker
Nick Gordon
Drew Pomeranz
Buster Posey
Matt Wieters
Ryan Braun
Mark Teixeira
J.D. Drew
Jack McDowell
Kent Mercker
Dwight Gooden
Matt Williams
Dale Murphy!
That's a pretty interesting moral position to have, but the rules don't prwvent it and lots of teams have ended the season by giving young players and role players more playing time.
I'm more wishing they found a way to lose one less game than I am hating on their roster management though.
So I'm mad at an unlucky sample of results more than anything.
Quite possibly..,but if braves had picked 1 or 2 there is a good chance they'd have picked the college bat at position of need that everyone wanted.
They weren't able to do that because of their draft position. But any event it's really about the bonus pool.
We really do usually agree, but again on this issue - we just look at it differently.
Yes the Braves (IMO) should have thrown Jenkins out there, they should not have used their best pitcher in what is a meaningless game - going from #2 -> #5 is significant, losing $3mill+ is very signigicant, winning 1-0 on the last game in Turner is not significant. Its just not.
As to your second point, the Braves responsibility is to their franchises' future, not to some other team fighting for a WC spot.
The Braves management bungled this and next year we aren't going to be in nearly as strong of a position entering a pivotal draft.
Agreed 100%.
You just get very few chances to pick at the top of a draft and if this rebuild is accelerating, next year's draft may have been our last chance for awhile - and we pissed it away. That's not smart, its lacking a 20,000 foot vision of whats going on.
Yes we will still get a very good prospect at #5, but we lose the ability to add a couple guys like Wentz/Muller. Or we lose the ability to be in the position to potentially grab either the top HS player or the top college player.
I'm a fan like everyone else, I don't like losing like everyone else, but baseball is all about asset accumulation - and the draft is one of the principal ways that happens, and we just lost a lot of leverage because we beat the Tigers 1-0. It was completely unnecessary and quite frankly ridiculous to use Teheran for that game.
CK86 (10-03-2016)
While I agree it would have been hugely beneficial to pick #2 instead of #5, I disagree completely that the Braves should have done anything other than what they did against the Tigers. As an MLB team, they owed it to every team competing with the Tigers to give them their best shot. They did exactly that, won the series, and knocked the Tigers out of the playoffs.
Someone saying, "I wish the Braves were picking #2", is not the same as saying, "I think the Braves should have lost on purpose this weekend". But I'm sure a lot of folks can't make that distinction, so in their heads anyone who laments the fact the Braves are picking 5th instead of 2nd must also think they should have tanked last weekend.
chop2chip (10-03-2016)
They do not owe it to every other team. Did the Twins make every effort to win out, did the Padres, did everyone else? Teams do this ALL THE TIME and if you don't think they do you are burying your head in the sand.
Its not losing on purpose to use a 'younger pitcher'. Sure its stacking the deck, but you're not telling Tyrell Jenkins to go out there and groove balls, you aren't telling hitters not to swing, but you can still make an intelligent decision by not using your best pitcher; knowing that in the larger scheme of things -- its without question the best decision for your franchise.
Last edited by Preacher; 10-03-2016 at 10:48 AM.
CK86 (10-03-2016)
This past year draft every one talk about Jason Groome to be the first pick and he finish drafted number 12. There is not a clear favorite for this upcoming draft. I understand the money situation. The Braves still can make a few trades for picks and get more money. Just let the front office do the job.
Difference of opinion I suppose, and other organizations are certainly run differently.
Calling up Swanson early was a sub-optimal move I didn't support because leaving him in the minors wasn't interfering with the fundamental aspect of a professional sport: everyone competing at the best of their ability at all times.
Everything we love about baseball (from stats, to wins/loses, to the drama of crowning a champion) hinges on the assumption that everyone is trying to win to the best of their ability all the time. As soon as that stops being the case, the sport has taken a step towards being something scripted like "wrestling".
There is no doubt that tanking (or something less severe than tanking) this weekend would have been hugely beneficial to the Braves franchise. Anyone who argues $3.5M in draft pool money isn't a big deal has lost all touch with reality, and is simply using poor arguments to back up their opinion. That opinion being: staying true to the competitiveness of professional sports is more important than extra draft money, even if all teams don't do the same.
I am all for teams making optimal moves, but even I draw the line at tanking, or anything resembling it.
chop2chip (10-03-2016)
sweeping the Phollies was not great, but JT got lit up and we did throw collmenter in that series plus started Castro/ a struggling Mallex/ and Ruiz... sometimes guys just perform. but I felt like if we wanted to steal a lose, that was the series to do it.
I think we should draft Buster Posey. Most of those other guys are too old.
CJ9 (10-03-2016)
Meh. I'd be a lot more upset if Seth Beer was entering the draft next year. Losing the additional draft money sucks though. But I'll wait to see what the new CBA looks like before I draw any final conclusions as to whether picking #2 or #5 is really going to make much difference for us. Hey, we got Maitan, so I'm all happy no matter what....
I am against not playing to your best ability.
However, the FO controls who is available to the manager. For instance, would it be advantageous for the Braves to know what they have with Castro at short? Is it possible that he will be a better ML player than he has shown in the minor leagues? The one way you find out is to play him. If he hits a grand slam to win a game in the 9th inning, so be it.
Does Kemp have the versatility to play 1B if Freeman were to go down? Since you have Mallex in LF and Kemp is a horrible defensive OF, might it not be advantageous to see if he could pass at the position for next year when he might be needed? If Mallex steals home to win the game or if Kemp starts a double play from first, then so be it.
And the one thing I haven't seen mentioned yet, although it may have been, is that picking 5th in the first round reverberates throughout the draft, picking 5th in the 2nd, 3rd and so forth. The lost money is big. The lost position is big.
Starting Jenkins yesterday was absolutely the decision that should have been made. Give him a chance to compete in front of a large crowd and give him that experience. He could be a cog in our plans going forward. And yes, it might have lessened our chances of winning yesterday, which was by far and unquestionably the best thing that could have happened for us for the future.
Very short sighted of this organization to blow the chance at the #2 slot. We won yesterday 1-0 and gave us 68 wins instead of 67, meaning we are still sitting home watching the playoffs and gained us absolutely nothing, and in the process dropped us 3 slots and millions of dollars in next year's draft. Very costly mistake.
CK86 (10-03-2016)
This is a good post, but I do think some are actually saying that the Braves should have went out of their way to lose games this past week. That's where the the disagreement is arising.
As of now, my ideal candidate at 5 would be Jordon Adell.
Agreed.
At number five, I'm certain we can probably cross off the top college guys, but we should have a couple of high ceiling high schoolers to pick from, including Hunter Greene.
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote