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Thread: 2018 Offseason And Targets

  1. #6321
    Sabermetric Slut
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    Quote Originally Posted by msstate7 View Post
    2014-2016...
    MB = 14.1 fWAR over 99 starts ~ 0.14 fWAR per start

    JV = 11.0 fWAR over 86 starts ~ 0.13 fWAR per start
    Yeah. MB's peak was a little better than JV's low point.

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    NL Rookie of the Year CrazyTrain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Super View Post
    i mean, it's convenient to select a frame that suits you. but verlander's career is far better than bumgarner's. and then take WAR from, say, 16-18 and let me know how it looks.
    His cherry picking is worse than what you suggest. Bum had two fluke injuries in that span, while JV has been healthy.

    If you look at JV from 05-12 and MB from 09-16, basically the first 8 years of each career, JV is at .158 fWAR / start and MB is at .128. Totals of 36.8 and 27.6 respectively. Bum started at 20 and JV at 22. While JV is definitely better, MB is no slouch.
    Last edited by CrazyTrain; 01-16-2019 at 11:27 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CrazyTrain View Post
    My guess is that the trade AA mentioned is for Gray. I don't see us really moving the needle on anything going forward. We'll add a bargain arm to the pen from the pool of whatever is left before the season starts, take a stab at a "buy low" for the rotation like Gray (Similar to Gausman deal) and start Duvall in the open cOF slot.
    Will be interesting to see what looks more different between now and the opening of camp - the "new uniforms" or the roster.
    Has there EVER been a statement and question a certain someone should absolutely never have made and asked publicly more than...

    Kinda pathetic to see yourself as a message board knight in shining armor. How impotent does someone have to be in real life to resort to playing hero on a message board?

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    Quote Originally Posted by CrazyTrain View Post
    His cherry picking is worse than what you suggest.
    agreed
    "Well, you’ll learn soon enough that this was a massive red wave landslide." - thethe on the 2020 election that trump lost bigly

    “I can’t fix my life, but I can fix the world.” - sturg

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    Quote Originally Posted by Super View Post
    i mean, it's convenient to select a frame that suits you. but verlander's career is far better than bumgarner's. and then take WAR from, say, 16-18 and let me know how it looks.
    2016-2018...

    MB = 8.0 fWAR over 72 starts ~ 0.11 per
    JV = 16.1 fWAR over 101 starts ~ 0.16 per

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    It's OVER 5,000! msstate7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Super View Post
    agreed
    I used that span bc they were both healthy for the most part.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CrazyTrain View Post
    MB is no slouch.
    no one has ever, at any point, argued this. i don't think it's even been hinted at. so what is the point of stating it.
    the point is, comparing bumgarner to verlander is stupid. they are not and were not similar. verlander always had higher peaks. just because he was able to return to near-peak doesn't mean bumgarner will be able to do it, or come anywhere close. it's just a dumb thing to reference for a bunch of reasons...but it keeps being referenced.
    "Well, you’ll learn soon enough that this was a massive red wave landslide." - thethe on the 2020 election that trump lost bigly

    “I can’t fix my life, but I can fix the world.” - sturg

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    Quote Originally Posted by msstate7 View Post
    2016-2018...

    MB = 8.0 fWAR over 72 starts ~ 0.11 per
    JV = 16.1 fWAR over 101 starts ~ 0.16 per
    what's total WAR? 30 starts over 3 years is a lot. they aren't comparable.
    "Well, you’ll learn soon enough that this was a massive red wave landslide." - thethe on the 2020 election that trump lost bigly

    “I can’t fix my life, but I can fix the world.” - sturg

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    Quote Originally Posted by msstate7 View Post
    I used that span bc they were both healthy for the most part.
    also because it better suited the comparison you wanted to try and force. i get it.
    "Well, you’ll learn soon enough that this was a massive red wave landslide." - thethe on the 2020 election that trump lost bigly

    “I can’t fix my life, but I can fix the world.” - sturg

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    Quote Originally Posted by msstate7 View Post
    2016-2018...

    MB = 8.0 fWAR over 72 starts ~ 0.11 per
    JV = 16.1 fWAR over 101 starts ~ 0.16 per
    also, do you think that's particularly close? over 30 starts, that's 3.3 WAR vs 4.8 WAR. that's...not close.
    "Well, you’ll learn soon enough that this was a massive red wave landslide." - thethe on the 2020 election that trump lost bigly

    “I can’t fix my life, but I can fix the world.” - sturg

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    Quote Originally Posted by Super View Post
    also, do you think that's particularly close? over 30 starts, that's 3.3 WAR vs 4.8 WAR. that's...not close.
    Jeez, dude... i don't care about JV or MB. Certainly not enough to throw a temper tantrum like you. You said JV was better than MB all along, and I just showed the pre-injury MB was better or at least comparable to pre-trade JV for a 3-year span. When you were younger you took your ball and went home every time you got mad, didn't you?

    ETA... I showed 16-18 bc you asked. Never said anything about it

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    Quote Originally Posted by msstate7 View Post
    Jeez, dude... i don't care about JV or MB. Certainly not enough to throw a temper tantrum like you. You said JV was better than MB all along, and I just showed the pre-injury MB was better or at least comparable to pre-trade JV for a 3-year span. When you were younger you took your ball and went home every time you got mad, didn't you?

    ETA... I showed 16-18 bc you asked. Never said anything about it
    so, you interpret "all along" to mean "a 3 year stretch that best suits me." gotcha.
    just present better arguments. i know you're from mississippi, but still.
    "Well, you’ll learn soon enough that this was a massive red wave landslide." - thethe on the 2020 election that trump lost bigly

    “I can’t fix my life, but I can fix the world.” - sturg

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    Why’s it always gotta be an arguement Super?
    Ivermectin Man

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    I don't think JTR gets traded until after the MLB Pipeline Top 100 comes out, so Jeter knows who to ask for :)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tapate50 View Post
    Why’s it always gotta be an arguement Super?
    was it not?
    1). i make a factual statement about a comparison that has been made frequently despite being a bad one
    2). mississippi posts a response to this statement attempting to present an argument against it
    3). i point out why it's flawed

    how about we just raise our expectations of our fellow posters? for example, when attempting to refute something, post something of relevance. it's really not a tough ask for most.
    "Well, you’ll learn soon enough that this was a massive red wave landslide." - thethe on the 2020 election that trump lost bigly

    “I can’t fix my life, but I can fix the world.” - sturg

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    Quote Originally Posted by Super View Post
    so, you interpret "all along" to mean "a 3 year stretch that best suits me." gotcha.
    just present better arguments. i know you're from mississippi, but still.
    Sorry super but I have to agree with state on this one. All along to me means at any point in their career’s. It seems like you’re moving the goalposts on this one. And knowing state he really doesn’t have a dog in this fight he just likes to play devils Advocate.
    Coppy

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chico View Post
    I don't think JTR gets traded until after the MLB Pipeline Top 100 comes out, so Jeter knows who to ask for :)

    Nicely done.
    Coppy

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    "all" along, to me, means their careers. having a higher peak, and being a better pitcher throughout his career (or, "all along") is important when looking at this comparison.

    that doesn't mean verlander has been better in every single season.
    "Well, you’ll learn soon enough that this was a massive red wave landslide." - thethe on the 2020 election that trump lost bigly

    “I can’t fix my life, but I can fix the world.” - sturg

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    all along
    phrase of all
    all the time; from the beginning
    Coppy

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    Quote Originally Posted by bravesfanMatt View Post
    all along
    phrase of all
    all the time; from the beginning
    correct. he's been better from the beginning.
    "Well, you’ll learn soon enough that this was a massive red wave landslide." - thethe on the 2020 election that trump lost bigly

    “I can’t fix my life, but I can fix the world.” - sturg

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