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Thread: Antifa

  1. #621
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    C'mon man, there are good people on both sides

    I remember when the antagonist Ngo reported he had worn milkshake mixed with concrete.
    That story didn't see the night.
    But some still bank on his word as if it were gospel.
    I understand he didn't make the trip this time
    Friggin "snowflake" "safe place" or some other nonsensical term

    So let's review , we had people throwing milkshakes and people showing up to a "peaceful" rally in body armor and displaying their cocks I mean,2nd Amendment rights. My bad
    But the people throwing milkshakes are the terrorists.
    Do I understand that right ?

    I am personally scared schitt less someone throws a milk shake at me
    Lou Reed wrote a song about that.
    On Transformer for those too young to know Lou Reed
    "oh baby you're so ... "
    The best way to stop a bad guy with a gun is to make sure he doesn’t get a gun.

  2. #622
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    Quote Originally Posted by Julio3000 View Post
    Ok, that’s fine. I’m just tired of the framing that’s being presented in this post. I’m not shedding tears over anyone who comes looking for a fight and finds one. I don’t like the violence, either. But I am bothered by making victims out of neo-Nazi white supremacists (and that’s what the bus was full of) who shipped in from out of town looking for a fight and found one.

    If you—and by you, I guess I really mean sturg—think that these people are doing anything other than looking for a fight, I question why they don’t act on their devotion to the values of “free speech” and just march without weapons and body armor, etc? If the violent conflict isn’t what it’s about, why aren’t they just doing what the freedom riders did or what the lunch counter protestors did?
    I have no doubt these people are coming to town looking for a fight. However, I abhor that they're finding one.

    The fact that you have a situation where people can make victims out of Nazis shows you just how bad these Antifa people are for things.

    Nazi's and white supremacists aren't that hard to outsmart. Meeting them on their level just means you've lowered yourself.

  3. #623
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    Oh my. You dont know early 1930's European history - do you?

    I feel pretty certain episodes in Charlottesville deemed in necessary for AntiFacist protesters had physical protection.
    Shoot, you dont even know history going back to 2017
    The best way to stop a bad guy with a gun is to make sure he doesn’t get a gun.

  4. #624
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    Quote Originally Posted by sturg33 View Post
    I really dont care as long as they weren't hurting anyone.

    I hope Julio doesn’t believe people deserve to be physically assaulted for thier beliefs.

  5. #625
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    I hope
    you never face with someone wearing body armor carrying an assault weapon or worse, you never have a milk shake thrown at you.
    The best way to stop a bad guy with a gun is to make sure he doesn’t get a gun.

  6. #626
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    Quote Originally Posted by striker42 View Post
    I have no doubt these people are coming to town looking for a fight. However, I abhor that they're finding one.

    The fact that you have a situation where people can make victims out of Nazis shows you just how bad these Antifa people are for things.

    Nazi's and white supremacists aren't that hard to outsmart. Meeting them on their level just means you've lowered yourself.
    Does this man look susceptible to your "mocking"

    Last edited by 57Brave; 08-21-2019 at 03:28 PM.
    The best way to stop a bad guy with a gun is to make sure he doesn’t get a gun.

  7. #627
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    Quote Originally Posted by 57Brave View Post
    Does this man look susceptible to your "mocking"

    Him? Of course not. But it's not about the individual nut jobs. It's about strangling the flow of new followers to these extremist movements.

    The best way to drive support to a fringe group is to do violence on them. Always has been.

    Again, this is a battle of ideas. You don't win those through force of arms. You have to squeeze them out. Marginalize them until they die off.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 57Brave View Post
    Oh my. You dont know early 1930's European history - do you?

    I feel pretty certain episodes in Charlottesville deemed in necessary for AntiFacist protesters had physical protection.
    Shoot, you dont even know history going back to 2017
    Before lecturing others on history, look at the Civil Rights movement. Was it the militant groups that were effective in bringing about reform and changes in people's minds? Not at all. It was those who endured persecution while acting peacefully that carried the day. By arresting someone simply refusing to move seats on a bus or turning water hoses on peaceful demonstrators, all that was accomplished was driving greater and broader support for the cause.

    You can find the same thing in India during its push for independence.

    When resisting evil you will sometimes experience violence. That does not justify adopting the tactics of your opponents.

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    "Was it the militant groups that were effective in bringing about reform and changes in people's minds? Not at all."
    we disagree. Peoples minds haven't changed at all
    unless you belive the tripe about "economic anxiety"



    It was 10 years after Brown v Board the Civil Rights and Voting Acts were signed. A year behind Malcolm X assassination, 2 years before King assassination and contemporary with Black Panthers . 7 years before the assassination attempt on George Wallace.
    Busing ...

    yes, I agree with you on so much, but the reality of the situation was then and now, to think you can defeat militancy and violence with "mocking" is very very naive. My thinking is Ghandi was a one off that had more to do with the crumbling British Empire than hunger strikes
    I certainly hope you don't see the Voting Act and Civil Rights as complete works. I would think that the rise of Trump is a straight line from 1965 to now.
    In so many ways the Civil Rights movement was a failure
    I am non violent and agree that is the optimum. But also understand, a man in a hood with a rope or a "peaceful protester" in body armor and assault weapon could care less about the words. As proven everyday right here on this Forum
    how many housewives, school teachers , high school students etc etc etc would stand for the intimidation of the White Nationalists .
    The police aren't protecting them. The National Guard under (R) rule wont protect them -- they would stay home and the nonsense from the White House would go on unchecked. With seeming little resistance.
    I will argue, antifa is more along the lines of a modern day Zorro

    Remind me how many deaths at the hands of antifa.
    When you get a minute go back to the pages in this forum and read the thread , some of the quotes and comments by our fellow Braves fans on the Womens March.

    Do you know the origins of the Black Panthers ? Did you know that gun control as we know it is a direct descendant to 1960's era California's Governors response to the Black Panthers.
    Did you know that the Black Panthers were dismantled by a combination of imbedded FBI , phony drug charges and out and out police murders ?
    And again, remind me how many deaths responsible to antifa?
    Prison terms antifa?
    Assassinations and mass murders ascribed to antifa?

    And where did that much spoken about hammer came from
    Last edited by 57Brave; 08-21-2019 at 05:49 PM.
    The best way to stop a bad guy with a gun is to make sure he doesn’t get a gun.

  10. #630
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    Quote Originally Posted by striker42 View Post
    Him? Of course not. But it's not about the individual nut jobs. It's about strangling the flow of new followers to these extremist movements.

    The best way to drive support to a fringe group is to do violence on them. Always has been.

    Again, this is a battle of ideas. You don't win those through force of arms. You have to squeeze them out. Marginalize them until they die off.
    nice thoughts but ...
    that isn't the world we are experiencing

    I don't see a "force of arms" on what Trump called "both sides"
    The best way to stop a bad guy with a gun is to make sure he doesn’t get a gun.

  11. #631
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    Quote Originally Posted by 57Brave View Post
    "Was it the militant groups that were effective in bringing about reform and changes in people's minds? Not at all."
    we disagree. Peoples minds haven't changed at all
    unless you belive the tripe about "economic anxiety"



    It was 10 years after Brown v Board the Civil Rights and Voting Acts were signed. A year behind Malcolm X assassination, 2 years before King assassination and contemporary with Black Panthers . 7 years before the assassination attempt on George Wallace.
    Busing ...

    yes, I agree with you on so much, but the reality of the situation was then and now, to think you can defeat militancy and violence with "mocking" is very very naive. My thinking is Ghandi was a one off that had more to do with the crumbling British Empire than hunger strikes
    I certainly hope you don't see the Voting Act and Civil Rights as complete works. I would think that the rise of Trump is a straight line from 1965 to now.
    In so many ways the Civil Rights movement was a failure
    I am non violent and agree that is the optimum. But also understand, a man in a hood with a rope or a "peaceful protester" in body armor and assault weapon could care less about the words. As proven everyday right here on this Forum
    how many housewives, school teachers , high school students etc etc etc would stand for the intimidation of the White Nationalists .
    The police aren't protecting them. The National Guard under (R) rule wont protect them -- they would stay home and the nonsense from the White House would go on unchecked. With seeming little resistance.
    I will argue, antifa is more along the lines of a modern day Zorro

    Remind me how many deaths at the hands of antifa.
    When you get a minute go back to the pages in this forum and read the thread , some of the quotes and comments by our fellow Braves fans on the Womens March.

    Do you know the origins of the Black Panthers ? Did you know that gun control as we know it is a direct descendant to 1960's era California's Governors response to the Black Panthers.
    Did you know that the Black Panthers were dismantled by a combination of imbedded FBI , phony drug charges and out and out police murders ?
    And again, remind me how many deaths responsible to antifa?
    Prison terms antifa?
    Assassinations and mass murders ascribed to antifa?

    And where did that much spoken about hammer came from
    I think there's a major difference between the country in 1960 and the country today. Is there still racism? Absolutely. But you're not talking about near what was happening during desegregation and the civil rights movement.

    What I mean by "mocking" is more of a societal thing. If you spew white supremacist and nazi nonsense you should experience derision and mockery from the rest of society. Social conformity is an incredible power. You're not going to defeat a group of nazis by having someone go up to their protest and make fun of them, but if as a society marginalize and dismiss them, it will be far more effective than meeting them with violence.

    Again, you don't win a war of ideas through physical violence. All that accomplishes is entrenching what you're fighting and increasing the support they receive.

    Look at the Palestinian and Israeli issue. How effective is a Palestinian blowing himself up to kill a few Israeli soldiers? How effective is it when Israeli soldiers open fire on protesters? These are ultimately counterproductive. If for the past 30 years Israel had invested in economic development and humanitarian aid in Palestinian areas, would we be looking at a different situation now?

    What Antifa is protecting people from is a bit fuzzy. There are tons of areas of the country full of racists with zero Antifa and you don't have gangs of Nazis roaming the streets. In fact, when you do have Nazi demonstrations in these areas, there usually is an extremely heavy police presence because of the potential for violence.

    All Antifa is doing is taking a bad situation and making it worse. They cause an escalation of tensions and tip people more over the edge into supporting the racists.

    They are not heroes, they are not Zorro. They're idiots just making things worse.

  12. #632
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    Yep.

    You've now given the losers an enemy to fight.

  13. #633
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    They are in their own words, anarchists. So no, they are not heroes and to a degree if you know your late 50's TV they are kinda like latter day Zorro's
    there is no doubt they have made it safer for the more timid to publicly raise their voices

    Making it worse-
    How many people are we talking about here?
    I had never heard of antifa before the Saturday of Charlottesville from thethe.
    Without the publicity given by Fox,right wing talk radio and right wing internet-sphere I don't think people would know the difference between antifa and the WNBA
    The best way to stop a bad guy with a gun is to make sure he doesn’t get a gun.

  14. #634
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    Quote Originally Posted by 57Brave View Post
    They are in their own words, anarchists. So no, they are not heroes and to a degree if you know your late 50's TV they are kinda like latter day Zorro's
    there is no doubt they have made it safer for the more timid to publicly raise their voices

    Making it worse-
    How many people are we talking about here?
    I had never heard of antifa before the Saturday of Charlottesville from thethe.
    Without the publicity given by Fox,right wing talk radio and right wing internet-sphere I don't think people would know the difference between antifa and the WNBA
    The problem is they have been given the publicity. They are now something to rally against.

    You now have situations where Nazis can try to say that they were just wanting to peacefully demonstrate and they were attacked by left wing militants. Masked men who want to do violence against anyone who disagrees with them.

    Whether that's true or not doesn't matter. That the narrative that can be created and is being created. And I can tell you that this narrative plays into fears a lot of people have. Fears of thought police coming after them because they hold beliefs that are no acceptable. And again, whether valid or not, these fears exist.

    This is exactly why you don't meet radicals like this with violence. You end up creating martyrs (even if no one dies).

  15. #635
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    Quote Originally Posted by striker42 View Post
    The problem is they have been given the publicity. They are now something to rally against.

    You now have situations where Nazis can try to say that they were just wanting to peacefully demonstrate and they were attacked by left wing militants. Masked men who want to do violence against anyone who disagrees with them.

    Whether that's true or not doesn't matter. That the narrative that can be created and is being created. And I can tell you that this narrative plays into fears a lot of people have. Fears of thought police coming after them because they hold beliefs that are no acceptable. And again, whether valid or not, these fears exist.

    This is exactly why you don't meet radicals like this with violence. You end up creating martyrs (even if no one dies).
    We also leave in a world where people (in this thread) really believe that people have a right to use violence against people they feel are racist. .

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    that is the point, what violence -
    a few fights on the side by confronting people that advertise they are looking for a fight ?

    A decade ago it was the menacing New Black Panthers
    The best way to stop a bad guy with a gun is to make sure he doesn’t get a gun.

  17. #637
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    "And I can tell you that this narrative plays into fears a lot of people have"

    What people?
    I am curious who is any longer on the fence?

    Which (D) has endorsed antifa ?
    Did I miss something --- did Joe slip and say hey, there are good people on both sides in Portland ?

    Who,how and why is antifa an electoral ball and chain that (D) candidates are forced to distance themselves from?

    Last I checked the (R) candidate is on record urging on/giving cover to use and I quote "2nd amendment solutions"
    while antifa throws milkshakes

    Y'all really need to either turn off Fox (Rush) or recognize when you are being played--- by Fox (Rush). Again
    Last edited by 57Brave; 08-22-2019 at 04:33 PM.
    The best way to stop a bad guy with a gun is to make sure he doesn’t get a gun.

  18. #638
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    Quite frankly I am more offended by the likes of Franklin Graham
    than I am a bunch of 20something anarchists throwing milkshakes.

    At what point does the narrative shift where you are expected to answer for Franklin Graham
    and the narrative he creates ?

    Let's not forget, you are the party (enablers) of Donald Trump
    Lock stock and barrel
    The best way to stop a bad guy with a gun is to make sure he doesn’t get a gun.

  19. #639
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    “Proud Boys Leader Admits Their Rallies Are For Fighting And Wasting Money


    The Proud Boys for years have helped organize street fights in Portland, Oregon ― gatherings thinly veiled as political freedom rallies in order to secure permits or police escorts from the city.”

    https://news.yahoo.com/proud-boys-ra...ity&soc_trk=fb
    "For there is always light, if only we are brave enough to see it. If only we are brave enough to be it." Amanda Gorman

    "When Fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross"

  20. #640
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