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Thread: DOTW 7/10/13: Re-sign McCann?

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    Called Up to the Major Leagues AUTiger7222's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by emk418 View Post
    When was the last time we had a bullpen arm like Kimbrel? We never have. Smoltz was obviously dominant but he was old at the time with huge injury issues. I agree with not spending big on your bullpen but Kimbrel is the exception. We can save on the 6 other guys.
    Kimbrel is special but it's just not smart to spend a lot of money on your bullpen or closer because relief pitchers are so fickle year to year. Look at home many teams have regretted handing out big money to closers. I would love to be like the Yankees and keep Kimbrel for his entire career because he is that special. I just don't see it happening with the budget the Braves operate with.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Heyward View Post
    Very unlikely unless he took a team-friendly deal to stay.

    I'm sure some AL team (Yankees, Rangers, Red Sox) to name a few will offer him more than we could.

    I'd do 3 years, 8-10 million in AAV but unlikely he'd accept that.

    People keep saying this, but Yankees are pretty hard against the luxury tax as it is without having resigned Cano yet. Can pretty much they won't drop big money on a catcher, especially considering catcher is a position they are very deep at in the minors.

    BoSox already have at least 3 quality catchers on their roster now with Ross, Salty, and Lavarnaway and no room at DH either. They even have Napoli who can catch as well And add in the fact that they aren't spending like they used to.

    Rangers and possibly the Tigers are really the only legitimate contenders for Mac's services. I guess you never count out either LA Team either, but both teams have more pressing needs than catcher.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AUTiger7222 View Post
    Kimbrel is special but it's just not smart to spend a lot of money on your bullpen or closer because relief pitchers are so fickle year to year. Look at home many teams have regretted handing out big money to closers. I would love to be like the Yankees and keep Kimbrel for his entire career because he is that special. I just don't see it happening with the budget the Braves operate with.

    Just have to keep praying we get a new owner in the next 2-3 seasons and may be we can keep him around. But I don't see it.

    Or perhaps Craig takes a below market extension in the next 2 yrs. Say 5/45? Would anyone offer a Relief pitcher that sort of contract? That's a pretty dangerous risk for someone who only throws about 60-75 innings a yr.

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    Connoisseur of Minors zitothebrave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AUTiger7222 View Post
    Kimbrel is special but it's just not smart to spend a lot of money on your bullpen or closer because relief pitchers are so fickle year to year. Look at home many teams have regretted handing out big money to closers. I would love to be like the Yankees and keep Kimbrel for his entire career because he is that special. I just don't see it happening with the budget the Braves operate with.
    It's not smart for teams who aren't winning to spend money on pen. Having a lock down closer as a playoff team is valuable.

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    Connoisseur of Minors zitothebrave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carp View Post
    Just have to keep praying we get a new owner in the next 2-3 seasons and may be we can keep him around. But I don't see it.

    Or perhaps Craig takes a below market extension in the next 2 yrs. Say 5/45? Would anyone offer a Relief pitcher that sort of contract? That's a pretty dangerous risk for someone who only throws about 60-75 innings a yr.
    I would offer it and honestly he's be smart to accept it cause you never know when an arm injury can ruin you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by emk418 View Post
    I don't understand why people keep talking about trading Kimbrel. It makes no sense.
    Makes plenty of sense.

    Closers are over-valued.

    Paying Kimbrel 15-20 million per year is just not possible, so trading him for the best deal is good in the long-run. Unless he somehow took a team-friendly contract, we can't afford him long-term with others due new deals soon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by emk418 View Post
    When was the last time we had a bullpen arm like Kimbrel? We never have. Smoltz was obviously dominant but he was old at the time with huge injury issues. I agree with not spending big on your bullpen but Kimbrel is the exception. We can save on the 6 other guys.
    Would you give Kimbrel 15-20 mil a year, and risk losing one of FF/Jason/JUp?

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    Quote Originally Posted by zitothebrave View Post
    It's not smart for teams who aren't winning to spend money on pen. Having a lock down closer as a playoff team is valuable.
    The Braves proved it with John Smoltz, that you can have the most dominate closer in your league but it doesn't make a lick of difference if he never has a chance to close out a game. Sure there were games and series (like game 5 of the NLDS against the Astros in 2005) that they lost because they didn't have that guy but they had some some good ones and still only won 1 World Series. I mean Wohlers was one of the best at the time he had the meltdown against the Yankees in 1996.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Heyward View Post
    Would you give Kimbrel 15-20 mil a year, and risk losing one of FF/Jason/JUp?
    I wouldn't. Not in a million years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carp View Post
    People keep saying this, but Yankees are pretty hard against the luxury tax as it is without having resigned Cano yet. Can pretty much they won't drop big money on a catcher, especially considering catcher is a position they are very deep at in the minors.

    BoSox already have at least 3 quality catchers on their roster now with Ross, Salty, and Lavarnaway and no room at DH either. They even have Napoli who can catch as well And add in the fact that they aren't spending like they used to.

    Rangers and possibly the Tigers are really the only legitimate contenders for Mac's services. I guess you never count out either LA Team either, but both teams have more pressing needs than catcher.
    Fair on the Yankees and Boston.

    The LA teams, or Rangers would seem possible.

    Still wouldn't be all that surprised if the Yankees signed him.

    I doubt the Tigers will, they need to keep some of their own players. Miggy is due a new deal, AJax as well, and Fister/Scherzer get really expensive soon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by emk418 View Post
    When was the last time we had a bullpen arm like Kimbrel? We never have. Smoltz was obviously dominant but he was old at the time with huge injury issues. I agree with not spending big on your bullpen but Kimbrel is the exception. We can save on the 6 other guys.
    For the record, i love Kimbrel, best closer in the game without question, but...

    Can you really justify paying a closer 15-20 million potentially?

    Because if he keeps pitching this well, it will likely cost that to keep him. I have no idea who would replace him but we could use that money in other areas and be a better overall team.

    Ideally he would take a team-friendly deal, say 5 years, 50 million with team options but assuming he would turn that down, you gotta trade him while his value is sky high.

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    Connoisseur of Minors zitothebrave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AUTiger7222 View Post
    The Braves proved it with John Smoltz, that you can have the most dominate closer in your league but it doesn't make a lick of difference if he never has a chance to close out a game. Sure there were games and series (like game 5 of the NLDS against the Astros in 2005) that they lost because they didn't have that guy but they had some some good ones and still only won 1 World Series. I mean Wohlers was one of the best at the time he had the meltdown against the Yankees in 1996.
    Neither of those 2 are close to Kimbrel. Kimbrel is special we should keep him as long as we possibly can. We're talking about a guy who may go down as the greatest closer of all time if he can stay healthy enough.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Heyward View Post
    For the record, i love Kimbrel, best closer in the game without question, but...

    Can you really justify paying a closer 15-20 million potentially?

    Because if he keeps pitching this well, it will likely cost that to keep him. I have no idea who would replace him but we could use that money in other areas and be a better overall team.

    Ideally he would take a team-friendly deal, say 5 years, 50 million with team options but assuming he would turn that down, you gotta trade him while his value is sky high.
    I would even have trouble giving him $10M a year if he would even take that deal considering that Papelbon for 4 for $48M from the Phillies and now they're stuck with him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Heyward View Post
    Fair on the Yankees and Boston.

    The LA teams, or Rangers would seem possible.

    Still wouldn't be all that surprised if the Yankees signed him.

    I doubt the Tigers will, they need to keep some of their own players. Miggy is due a new deal, AJax as well, and Fister/Scherzer get really expensive soon.
    If Mac wants the best offer, it won't be from us, if he wants to stay ehre I'm sure we can work out a deal that works for both of us.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zitothebrave View Post
    Neither of those 2 are close to Kimbrel. Kimbrel is special we should keep him as long as we possibly can. We're talking about a guy who may go down as the greatest closer of all time if he can stay healthy enough.
    I understand that. But again can the Braves really justify playing $10-15M a year for Kimbrel with a payroll budget of only $90M?

    I mean what good would it do to have Kimbrel locked up for that much if the rest of the team isn't good enough for it to matter?

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    Quote Originally Posted by zitothebrave View Post
    Neither of those 2 are close to Kimbrel. Kimbrel is special we should keep him as long as we possibly can. We're talking about a guy who may go down as the greatest closer of all time if he can stay healthy enough.
    Exactly. There's a different between paying a very good closer a lot of money or spending extra to keep one of the most dominant pitchers in recent memory with the team. If he's demanding $20M then no I don't keep him. But if we can lock him up for roughly $15M I would have a hard time saying no.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AUTiger7222 View Post
    I understand that. But again can the Braves really justify playing $10-15M a year for Kimbrel with a payroll budget of only $90M?

    I mean what good would it do to have Kimbrel locked up for that much if the rest of the team isn't good enough for it to matter?
    Pretty sure their payroll will go up, but yeah I'd go for it at 15M

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    Quote Originally Posted by zitothebrave View Post
    Pretty sure their payroll will go up, but yeah I'd go for it at 15M
    Why would the payroll go up? What reason do we have to believe Liberty Media would spend more on the Braves or sell the team to someone who would increase payroll?

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    Quote Originally Posted by AUTiger7222 View Post
    Why would the payroll go up? What reason do we have to believe Liberty Media would spend more on the Braves or sell the team to someone who would increase payroll?
    I believe it was McGuirk who said our payroll could go up to 95-100 this year, then the new national revenue. I'm guess it will be able to go up to the 100-110 range. Braves are spending less now so they aren't overly bogged down when they have to pay for Jason, Freddie, etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zitothebrave View Post
    If Mac wants the best offer, it won't be from us, if he wants to stay ehre I'm sure we can work out a deal that works for both of us.
    I don't disagree, i've reports we may move on, and just go with Bethancourt/Gattis at C.

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