The Trump Presidency

[Julio3000]

This concept of foreign power is to narrow minded if you ask me. There are global entities trying to sway influence. Russia is one. Massive media outlets are others. Large financial houses are examples of others. Do you think that NBC or the NYTs is better because they are "American". Don't don't care about america. They care about power. The same as russia.

So, as an American, you're saying that there is no material difference between the interests of an American media company and the interests of a foreign power like China or Russia or Iran?

[Julio3000]

This leads me back to my original comment: You are grasping - mightily and obviously - at straws.

If Stone sending a DM to Guccifer 2.0, Flynn/Page corresponding with the Russian ambassador, or Manafort working for Viktor Yanukovych, individually or collectively constitutes the trappings of a criminal conspiratorial enterprise then our respective abilities to interpret 'objectively factual state[s] of play' could not be more different.

Comey mentioned today that this investigation has been underway since July. If the FBI, NSA, or any one of the multitude of government agencies which have been tasked to explore this issue haven't been able to produce a smoking gun - or literally any other form of actionable intelligence/evidence - in the proceeding 9 months then I feel overwhelmingly comfortable saying that the topic indeed has been amply exhausted.

This is, and has always been, a complete sham that is not altogether much different than the Birther Movement.

Hmm. Comey also intimated that the investigation was less than mature.

I guess we'll see. I assume that the fact that there is enough PC for a counterintelligence investigation elevates this beyond allegations that Barack Obama was born in Kenya. Disagree?

Republicans control both chambers of congress. Yet this is still being investigated. In fact, both IC officials testifying today have stated that Russia engaged in a campaign of active measures to help one candidate and hurt another.

But, per you, it's equivalent to birtherism, for which there was never any evidence or any US officials on the record confirming.

Maybe it's Benghazi. We'll see. Again, you're whistling past the graveyard if you're prejudging the conclusions here.

[thethe]

So, as an American, you're saying that there is no material difference between the interests of an American media company and the interests of a foreign power like China or Russia or Iran?

I think the motives are very similar. Accumulate more power and influence.

[thethe]

What makes NYT american? Because they opened up shop here? They are a global influence now.

[Julio3000]

So what you're saying, thethe, is that there's no difference between an American media outlet and a foreign government?

So NYT, CNN, NBC, Fox, et all are materially equal to Russia, China, or Notth Korea?

[goldfly]

So Trump's folks want us to believe that the CIA hacked the DNC to make it look like Russia did it and then gave the hacked info to Wikileaks, pretending to be Russians, tricked all these Trump players into meetings with Russians, including faking the GOP Platform change that was more Russian friendly, went even further and lied to Obama about the Russian interference in our elections, so that he would go so far as to expel Russians from the US and create even more sanctions, based on fake election hacks, so that they could create all of these of these fake Trump Russia meetings, all to hurt Hillary's chances of winning, and then is now using all of this to smear Trump because......


why?

[goldfly]

but i've never seen someone who won an election try to undermine their own win more than this guy

[thethe]

So what you're saying, thethe, is that there's no difference between an American media outlet and a foreign government?

So NYT, CNN, NBC, Fox, et all are materially equal to Russia, China, or Notth Korea?

I said I think there motives are similar. If you want to say that answers your questurn then so be it.

[goldfly]

no matter what way you want to spin it, today the FBI has confirmed there is an espionage investigation involving the White House

[Hawk]

Hmm. Comey also intimated that the investigation was less than mature.

I guess we'll see. I assume that the fact that there is enough PC for a counterintelligence investigation elevates this beyond allegations that Barack Obama was born in Kenya. Disagree?

Republicans control both chambers of congress. Yet this is still being investigated. In fact, both IC officials testifying today have stated that Russia engaged in a campaign of active measures to help one candidate and hurt another.

But, per you, it's equivalent to birtherism, for which there was never any evidence or any US officials on the record confirming.

Maybe it's Benghazi. We'll see. Again, you're whistling past the graveyard if you're prejudging the conclusions here.

He did. He also specifically refused to answer multiple follow-up questions directed at the length of the investigation (despite saying that it was more or less 'undercooked' in relation to a traditional cointel probe). Make of that what you will, but to me it simply translates as, "We're not ready to produce any definitive findings."

I'm not going to even address the comment about this still being investigated despite Republican control of Congress. That's a ludicrous inference (not to mention chronologically inaccurate) and leaves you bobbing in 57's waters. You are much more sophisticated than that.

As for birtherism, there was plenty of 'evidence'. It was about as compelling as Roger Stone's singular tweet from Guccifer or the New York Times mysteriously finding burned copies of a hand-written ledger in Kiev tying Manafort to millions in dirty money.

[57Brave]

lost in the conversation of Russia was this:

David Corn‏Verified account @DavidCornDC 14m14 minutes ago

The importance of this hearing cannot be overstated. FBI indicates POTUS not telling truth on Obama wiretapping or Russia hacking story.


hard watching sturg hawk and thethe still use Trump water to minimize the Russian influence.
The FBI Director called him a liar under oath

[Hawk]

The FBI Director called him a liar under oath

No, he didn't.

[Hawk]

today the FBI has confirmed there is an espionage investigation involving the White House

No, it didn't.

[Julio3000]

He did. He also specifically refused to answer multiple follow-up questions directed at the length of the investigation (despite saying that it was more or less 'undercooked' in relation to a traditional cointel probe). Make of that what you will, but to me it simply translates as, "We're not ready to produce any definitive findings."

I'm not going to even address the comment about this still being investigated despite Republican control of Congress. That's a ludicrous inference (not to mention chronologically inaccurate) and leaves you bobbing in 57's waters. You are much more sophisticated than that.

As for birtherism, there was plenty of 'evidence'. It was about as compelling as Roger Stone's singular tweet from Guccifer or the New York Times mysteriously finding burned copies of a hand-written ledger in Kiev tying Manafort to millions in dirty money.

I wouldn't stake my life on the Manafort ledger.

You're laughably all wet otherwise, though.

Like with Flynn . . . he got fired. Manafort got cut loose. Why?

To suggest that birther "evidence" is in any way equivalent is just silly. If that's what you want to go with, fine. You've been consistently wrong about this since day one, so, please continue.

[57Brave]

"No, he didn't."

Going down with the ship are ya ?

[Julio3000]

No, it didn't.

There is a counterintelligence investigation involving the Trump campaign. Ok with you?

[Garmel]

So the NSA and FBI directors both just stated in testimony that:

1. Russia sought to undermine confidence and legitimacy of the election.
2. That they did so to hurt Sec Clinton and to
3. Help Trump.

And that means nothing to you, [MENTION=128]sturg33[/MENTION] and [MENTION=7]thethe[/MENTION] ?

The NSA lied to the American people over surveillance a few years ago and Comey has proven to be an incompetent boob during the election. Also, with all of the leaks happening it shows that we have our own intelligence agencies actively working against Trump. You'll pardon me if I remain skeptical of these agencies' opinions.

[Julio3000]

NSA lied to the American people over surveillance a few years ago and Comey has proven to be an incompetent boob during the election. Also, with all of the leaks happening it shows that we have our own intelligence agencies actively working against Trump. You'll pardon me if I remain skeptical of these agencies' opinions.

That's fine. Let's see where the investigation goes. Is that fair?

[Garmel]

That's fine. Let's see where the investigation goes. Is that fair?

Fair enough.

[Julio3000]

Let's stay in the realm of what's known.

Roger Stone has admitted mulitiple contacts with a "person" who the IC considers to be representing an agent of Russian intelligence.

Regardless of his level of knowledge or level of collusion, it certainly seems to rise above the standard of "evidence" that Barack Obama was born in Kenya.

But Roger Stone/Guccifer 2.0 = birtherism.

Sure.