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Thread: Acuna

  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enscheff View Post
    People need to realize that posters like thethe and clv do not base their views on facts. Instead, they take a point of view, and then morph their interpretation of available facts to fit their point of view.

    So when Heyward struggles, it is proof they were right that he wasn't a good hitter. When someone points out the facts showing Heyward was a good hitter until last season, in their heads that means the data proves the league just hadn't figured out how to exploit him yet.

    Same thing when presented with the fact that pitching prospects are more risky and less valuable than hitting prospects. Any normally rational human would conclude that it's wise to invest in hitting prospects. However, since thethe is the ultimate Braves homer, and the Braves are focusing on pitching, he morphs the fact into evidence proving it's a good thing to stockpile pitching.

    It is called confirmation bias, and it is completely opposite of having an intuitive and curious intellect.


    What's beginning to get scary is the idea that there's a picture of some of us over your bed.

    At what point did I enter into this discussion - other than as part of your odd thoughts???

    Talk about obsessed.
    Has there EVER been a statement and question a certain someone should absolutely never have made and asked publicly more than...

    Kinda pathetic to see yourself as a message board knight in shining armor. How impotent does someone have to be in real life to resort to playing hero on a message board?

  2. #82
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    I agree Acuna is good.

    2018 seems way too early. Unless he just dominates A+ and AA ball this year...

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by thethe View Post
    How do you know what baseball as a whole thought? I frequently remember the metz broadcasters, specifically Keith hernandez, talk about all the issues he had in swing for years. Repeatedly saying that freeman was the far superior hitter before freeman broke out.

    So when you make a statement like how baseball thought what does that mean?
    I don't remember the offseason talks ver batim... But I do recall that Heyward had BIG offers from the Nats, Cards, and Cubs - all of whom I consider to be the smartest clubs in baseball

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    Quote Originally Posted by sturg33 View Post
    I don't remember the offseason talks ver batim... But I do recall that Heyward had BIG offers from the Nats, Cards, and Cubs - all of whom I consider to be the smartest clubs in baseball
    Yeah. But do you have any proof about what the other front offices thought. That seems to be the information required.

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by sturg33 View Post
    I don't remember the offseason talks ver batim... But I do recall that Heyward had BIG offers from the Nats, Cards, and Cubs - all of whom I consider to be the smartest clubs in baseball
    I agree that many in baseball thought/think Heyward is a good hitter. That wasn't what was asserted though.

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    i hate to make this into a Heyward thing, but the issue with him is that people believed he was going to be an elite player, i.e. superstar. That just never happened, and it doesn't look like it will ever happen. So yes he was a good hitter for a couple of seasons, but he did not live up to expectations...not even close.

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    Quote Originally Posted by smootness View Post
    Enscheff, you know it's a more nuanced discussion than simply, 'Position prospects are more valuable, therefore stocking up on pitching prospects is dumb.'

    At least, I hope you know that. It actually does make logical sense that because pitching prospects are more risky, therefore slightly less valuable on average, but you still have to have pitchers on your roster, it's a good idea for a smaller market team to stockpile enough pitching prospects to feel good about ending up with a rotation out of your farm system.

    The risk of pitching prospects is already baked into their value, meaning it is easier to get them on the market than similar hitting prospects. So we definitely have made a point to get plenty of pitching prospects, but getting an equal number of similar hitting prospects in return was likely not possible.

    And we are doing just fine on the positional prospect side. I really don't understand the criticism.
    I agree it is more nuanced. Southcrack brings up a good point about acquisition cost (though nobody will convince me Lewis would have been any more expensive to acquire than Anderson was because all the facts point to the exact opposite).

    My point was that when someone states the fact that, "asset Type A is more risky and less valuable overall than asset Type B", it is extreme confirmation bias when the conclusion someone else draws from that statement is, "then it's a good thing we are stocking up on asset Type A".

    Arguing about the validity of the fact stated is one thing. Drawing a moronic conclusion based on the fact presented is completely different issue.

  9. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by clvclv View Post
    What's beginning to get scary is the idea that there's a picture of some of us over your bed.

    At what point did I enter into this discussion - other than as part of your odd thoughts???

    Talk about obsessed.
    Yes, I have a shrine to all realtors I know who deal in the low end market of double-wides and bungalows.

    Shouldn't you be passing out fliers instead of posting here?

  10. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orphan Black View Post
    i hate to make this into a Heyward thing, but the issue with him is that people believed he was going to be an elite player, i.e. superstar. That just never happened, and it doesn't look like it will ever happen. So yes he was a good hitter for a couple of seasons, but he did not live up to expectations...not even close.
    I think Heyward is still a good overall player and maybe he rebounds offensively. I don't think he's been the same since the beaning although he put up a very good season in St. Louis. The diminished power is what stands out to me. He's still a stellar outfielder and a very good baserunner. I don't know if that amounts to a player worth what he's getting paid, but the market did what it did. My guess is all the bidders thought his power numbers would rebound.

    PS--To the Hernandez comment, I don't think any observer could conclude from their approaches that Freeman's isn't superior to Heyward's, but approaches don't necessarily translate to results. Freeman's hitting base and his swing are almost flawless and his weight transfer is also right on the mark. Heyward is the superior athlete and I think at some level, his athleticism masked a few holes in his swing. At the big league level, it's all about constantly making adjustments because the other side is always scouting for weaknesses. Heyward may be one adjustment away from getting back to where he was prior to 2016.

    The bottom line is Heyward isn't done. People forget he's still young. If he were 30, sticking a fork in him would probably be warranted.
    Last edited by 50PoundHead; 03-24-2017 at 11:57 AM.

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    I still think that face ball messed Heywood up more than he will ever admit. I think it got in his head and then he tinkered with his swing to fix a problem in his head.

  12. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by thethe View Post
    I agree that many in baseball thought/think Heyward is a good hitter. That wasn't what was asserted though.
    So where is the proof that there of those that didn't think Heyward was a good hitter and expected him to crap out? Again, take out people who get frustrated with players on the team they follow and you have nothing.

  13. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by bravesfanMatt View Post
    I still think that face ball messed Heywood up more than he will ever admit. I think it got in his head and then he tinkered with his swing to fix a problem in his head.
    Think so too and had suggested this before. Not sure if it directly affected his swing or just made him less aggressive at that plate. It's almost certain though that it made him a little gun shy.

  14. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by thewupk View Post
    So where is the proof that there of those that didn't think Heyward was a good hitter and expected him to crap out? Again, take out people who get frustrated with players on the team they follow and you have nothing.
    I mentioned the metz broadcast crew. Obviously the braves front office believed it or else they would have extended him.

    You are asking me to prove something that is unrealistic but it doesn't proven that what you said is right. There is rarely a consensus view in a player.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thethe View Post
    I mentioned the metz broadcast crew. Obviously the braves front office believed it or else they would have extended him.

    You are asking me to prove something that is unrealistic but it doesn't proven that what you said is right. There is rarely a consensus view in a player.
    Don't waste your time indulging the autistic members. They're reduced to creating a straw man now. Nobody ever once posted here that Heyward was "not a good hitter." The point is that he projected to legendary but did not live up to those expectations.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thethe View Post
    I mentioned the metz broadcast crew. Obviously the braves front office believed it or else they would have extended him.

    You are asking me to prove something that is unrealistic but it doesn't proven that what you said is right. There is rarely a consensus view in a player.
    I seriously doubt the Braves didn't feel Heyward was a good hitter. They didn't extend him because they didn't think he was worth the contract he got due to difference of opinion on defensive value. Again, this was never brought up during possible trade of ext talks at that time. Heyward was a good hitter. Whether you think he was or not is irrelevant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Knucksie View Post
    Don't waste your time indulging the autistic members. They're reduced to creating a straw man now. Nobody ever once posted here that Heyward was "not a good hitter." The point is that he projected to legendary but did not live up to those expectations.
    You might want to re-read this thread.

  18. #97
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    Actually took the bait and visited this site:
    http://www.thepointofpittsburgh.com/...dated-edition/

    Impressions:
    First, the eyes glazed over, thinking that it's kind of scary that people do this while not getting paid for it. In terms of hobbies, it's far less cool than Screech's insect collection on "Saved By the Bell."

  19. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knucksie View Post
    Actually took the bait and visited this site:
    http://www.thepointofpittsburgh.com/...dated-edition/

    Impressions:
    First, the eyes glazed over, thinking that it's kind of scary that people do this while not getting paid for it. In terms of hobbies, it's far less cool than Screech's insect collection on "Saved By the Bell."
    Your obsession with telling people what they should and shouldn't talk about is beyond annoying.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CJ9 View Post
    Your obsession with telling people what they should and shouldn't talk about is beyond annoying.
    You could say it's a sad little hobby that he has started

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    Quote Originally Posted by Enscheff View Post
    I agree it is more nuanced. Southcrack brings up a good point about acquisition cost (though nobody will convince me Lewis would have been any more expensive to acquire than Anderson was because all the facts point to the exact opposite).

    My point was that when someone states the fact that, "asset Type A is more risky and less valuable overall than asset Type B", it is extreme confirmation bias when the conclusion someone else draws from that statement is, "then it's a good thing we are stocking up on asset Type A".

    Arguing about the validity of the fact stated is one thing. Drawing a moronic conclusion based on the fact presented is completely different issue.
    But major league teams do have to have Type B assets, and usually more of them than Type A assets. So there are costs one way or another. If you could avoid Type B assets altogether, that would be one thing, or if it cost the same to acquire both assets. But it costs more to acquire Type A assets and you still need both.

    The fact is valid, but I don't think the conclusion is wrong, either. I'm not saying we should go pitching instead of hitting, but you have to have both, especially if the other alternative is to use a huge % of your budget on acquiring already-proven guys later.

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