I found two instances, in 2010, when he's done it.Originally Posted by Dalyn
That's not to say I wouldn't have used him. He wanted to go in. He asked to go in. We lost the game without our best RP seeing the mound. This is why "save situations" are so stupid. Just use your best guy when it's appropriate. Forget "saves."
Yeah, I didn't ask you to repost it, so I frankly don't care. You win this all important argument. Happy? :)
Everything is Fredi's fault. Done.
I didn't even imply this. Just wanted to correct inaccurate information that is going around. If you are having an argument, and it seems you are, it isn't with me.
Carpenter also allowed a homer to Hanley to make it 4-3 in game 2. So, it's not like he had been lights-out. It was risky throwing a rookie RP who had already allowed a bomb this series in right there, and we paid for it. Maybe Fredi will learn, but probably not.
Dalyn (10-11-2013)
Had we been up 2-1, it might have been a different story, and I may have gone with Carpenter. But we were down. We 100 percent needed that game. And this isn't me being Captain Hindsight. I was calling for Kimbrel in the eighth, as soon as George put us ahead. Whatever or however long we argue it won't change anything now.
As far as Puig beating the shifts, I still want to know where the hell Tosca had Simmons playing on his single in game 1 that jumpstarted that second inning. Let the man play the position.
Dalyn (10-11-2013)
There's always a debate about whether to pitch your closer in the 9th or the 8th if there's heavy hitters there.
Puig was the only threat to Carpenter that inning.
We've all seen before not just with our team but with every team, that some pitchers don't have the mentality to close out the 9th inning. That's why closers are closers. We've seen teams including ours try 8th inning and 7th inning relievers in the 9th to try and close it down and they fail.
Retisma was always a solid 7th or 8th inning guy. It's when Bobby asked him to close he pitched with his pants down. Guys like Wickman and Todd Jones may not have overpowering stuff, but their mental game to pitch in the 9th is better than a lot of relievers who can throw 95+.
People keep pointing to Kimbrel being able to pitch 2 innings, he's done it before yes. In the playoffs when Wagner went down, he wasn't our closer yet. THen he also did some regular season games in lopsided losses. Asking him to go 2 innings this time would've been too much. I could see plenty of people writing if Kimbrel blew it "Stupid Fredi, Kimbrel's never pitched 2 innings to close out a game before, why try now?" or "Stupid Fredi, Carpenter has been solid all year for us, and he struck out Puig the other night. Why not give it to him in the 8th and CK int he 9th like you've been doing all year? Overmanaging idiot".
Forever Fredi
I agree that there are people who would have second-guessed it either way. But I'll say with 100 percent certainty I would have backed Fredi under that scenario.
You guys exaggerate the response from the Fredi realists around here. Almost all of us voice our opinion BEFORE the result. This idea that we wait until whatever happens and jump on him regardless is flawed.
Puig was the only threat? That HR by Uribe still hasn't landed. Seems like a threat.
Fredi threw Carpenter out there to face Puig and Uribe, who were hot all series. Why in the hell would you not use the best fire extinguisher in the whole damn league to try and put them out? You're going to use a rookie RP who had already been whipped in the series? Ok. And that's how you lose baseball games.
holden (10-15-2013)
Agreed, I was begging that he would use Kimbrel to face two extremely hot hitters that night, and was not happy when he went with Carpenter.
Dalyn (10-11-2013)
And not only that...Carpenter's strength throughout this season was being able to throw the damn ball 95+ mph, and with a 1-2 count (Idk if Mac called it, or Carp wanted it, or Fredi wanted it or what), he hung a damn offspeed pitch that sped Uribe's bat up. Why? Why? Why?
Because Uribe wasn't actually a threat.
Until he was, of course.
Uribe wasn't a threat to a pitcher like Carpenter.
Until Carp hung a breaking ball to him. Carpenter has been getting out better players than Uribe all year in tight situations.
Forever Fredi
No doubt. But none of this is really a knock on Carpenter. This is about how Kimbrel is in a different league.
Uribe hit .385 in the series. He was smoking hot. Carpenter allowed 2 ER on a long homer just two nights before. He was absolutely a threat, and proved it. By crushing a ball that was a no freaking doubter.
Agree 100%. Fredi was managing a do or die game like it was a game in April. I bet if his career was on the line he would have brought Kimbrel in for the 8th.
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Dalyn (10-11-2013)
The "people would get mad at Fredi if he did it differently" argument is getting really old.
Check the gamethread. A TON of people were asking for Kimbrel once we got the lead. And once Puig got on, there was really no excuse at all to leave him out.
The save statistic has ruined good managing. It is the only statistic that actually causes managers to make decisions based off a stat rather than winning. I think everyone knows my viewpoint on the save stat... But I feel that if I was the manager, we win this game easily. Kimbrel shuts them down in the 8th, and I use committee to get it done in the 9th.
Carpenter looked bad the both times, he didnt look ready for the moment. We could all tell. Uribe was even trying to concede the out, maybe the worst part. Its not like when Uribe hit the homerun, people started questioning the choice, it was at the end of the 7th when quite a bit of people wanted CK in. I want all my bullets empty at the end of the year, our best bullet was left in the chamber.
it's a bull**** statistic that has the dumbest rules to qualify. the highest leverage point in a game is not always the ninth, but what's worse is that baseball has defined a closer as a three out guy.
Starting pitchers need to start throwing more innings, and closers need to come in at the most crucial point of a game and throw more than just one inning at a time.
Just wanted to post that in the 2010 NLDS Game 2, when Kimbrel pitched two perfect innings, he struck out 4 Giants batters. One of them was Juan Uribe.
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