One Libertarian's Take on "Ron Paul Libertarians"

[acesfull86]

Agreed ...the actual party is doing an awful job

[nsacpi]

I've always had libertarian sensibilities and still do. For me this mostly manifests itself in preferring market oriented solutions to public policy problems (eg carbon tax 100 times over complicated regulations). I favor state intervention when markets fail (and btw a pandemic is exhibit A of such a situation), but want this intervention to be efficient and with a light hand. But the "folk libertarianism" that seems to be the main strand of libertarianism in this country nowadays aint my cup of tea.

[Dalyn]

Curious what caused you to feel that way...what position changes did the party make?

I can get into some specifics when I have more time, but I think Penn Jillette (one of my favorite people) summed it up nicely in an interview:

"Libertarianism has been so distorted," Jillette said. "I mean I don't know if I have to pull my name out of that ring. It's been adopted by people who don't seem to hold the responsibility side of it and don't seem to hold the compassion side of it."

[nsacpi]

I can get into some specifics when I have more time, but I think Penn Jillette (one of my favorite people) summed it up nicely in an interview:

"Libertarianism has been so distorted," Jillette said. "I mean I don't know if I have to pull my name out of that ring. It's been adopted by people who don't seem to hold the responsibility side of it and don't seem to hold the compassion side of it."

With respect to the last part, we've seen an entire group (and I actually don't think they deserve the label libertarians) effectively deny that there is a role for public policy in situations where individuals clearly can't internalize the external costs their actions can bring to others (like during a pandemic). It is wrong-headed in an extreme kind of way. Ideologically driven nihilism.

[sturg33]

As i was saying...

Great new policy!

[acesfull86]

I favor state intervention when markets fail (and btw a pandemic is exhibit A of such a situation), but want this intervention to be efficient and with a light hand.

Agreed. Although my faith in government to do so is at an all time low and unlikely to rise regardless of the election outcome

[nsacpi]

Agreed. Although my faith in government to do so is at an all time low and unlikely to rise regardless of the election outcome

I think your point about "government failure" is a great one. In situations where there is market failure, government action can make things worse.

But I don't think it follows from that possibility that we should just assume government will make things worse. Sometimes laissez-faire leads to outcomes so bad that even a half-assed government response is better than none. We all do have some interest in getting good results from our government. To just dismiss all possibility of getting a beneficial response is a form of ideological nihilism.

And it doesn't square with the facts. Our air and water for example are much cleaner, and while there are some environmental regulations that don't meet cost-benefit criteria society has benefited from a cleaner environment. Those success stories just don't happen to fit into certain ideological narratives (folk libertarianism being one of them).

[cajunrevenge]

Libertarians live to tell other Libertarians that they arent true Libertarians. Its the no true Scotsman **** on repeat. You dont have to look any further than this forum to see how wildly different Libertarians can view things. Both me and Sturg love Dr. Paul and would love to vote for Jorgensen. Unfortunately I would estimate 30-50% of self professed Libertarians are legitimate crazy people who mistake wanting to be free to have sex with little boys or think of Libertarianisim as excuse to justify their crazy ****.


I think just about everyones a Libertarian when it comes to themselves but its that people cant resist the temptation to try and lord over other people.



I dont agree with the opinion this thread was about. I think there was a growing anti-establishment movement in this country of people who were just tired of the same old **** and the same old corruption. Dr. Paul as I heard him described was the nuclear option to the system for people who wanted real change and were tired of getting conned by every new politician that comes along. No one expected him to just wipe out everything like he was promising. Thats a pipedream. He would have worked within the system like eveyrone else and brought about significant change but not the wholesale gutting of everything like he was kind of campaigning on.




And let me just say anyone that voted for Paul for racists reasons is a complete maroon. The people who accuse him of being racist are also complete maroons who dont know what they are talking about. No politician in modern American politics has gone against the grain to fight against racism like Ron Paul because you can not believe in Liberty and be racist. They dont mix. People like to take his stance on the Civil Rights Act and assign sinister motives to it. His stance on it is 100% correct imo. People just get way too emotional about it and wont even consider his points about it.

[acesfull86]

Laissez-faire can lead to bad outcomes, for sure, but very often it leads to a good/efficient outcomes. If we limited government intervention in markets to only correct actual market failures (as defined by an economics textbook, not "any market result not conforming to my preferred outcome"), we'd have a much more effective, efficient government. We're a long way from that and probably drifting ever further away.

I'm happy to acknowledge a "success story," but when we also have an incoherent tax system, subsidies based on preferential treatment of particular groups, import quotas, tariffs, immigration restrictions, minimum wages, rent control, occupational licensing designed solely to erect barriers to entry, and how many other countless bad government interventions in markets, it's hard to find the time to celebrate the successes.

[sturg33]

As i was saying...

Great new policy!

Seriously Trump is the only President in my lifetime who does amazing things like this.

Its a big reason why the establishment hates his guts.

[Runnin]

Seriously Trump is the only President in my lifetime who does amazing things like this.

Its a big reason why the establishment hates his guts.

You think that is good?

Maybe you can get a new job.

[sturg33]

You think that is good?

Maybe you can get a new job.

Do I think its good that government employees can be fired for poor performance for once?

Yes, that would be tremendous.

[goldfly]

Lol

[Dalyn]

Lol

We've gotten close to this in WV. An 8-year old coal miner has bought heroin with bits of coin. Small difference, but hey! We are trying.

[goldfly]

If there is any state I believe could do it

WV could do it

[cajunrevenge]

We can take any sides ideology to extremes to make it look bad. Freedom isnt about being allowed to only make good choices. The ability to choose for myself is all I ask.

[Runnin]

Do I think its good that government employees can be fired for poor performance for once?

Yes, that would be tremendous.

That's not what that's about.