Blue State Nationalism

[Jaw]

As much as I love the idea of splitting into the United Socialist States of America and the Not Crazy States of America, I don't think it's practical. Where do swing states go? Can they switch back and forth every year? If not, we're back to where we are now. What about transportation, is it cool to send big rigs full of dope across all of those red states from Seattle to Chicago?

Striker's idea of *actually following the Constitution* is much better. Each state can make changes without resentment toward others. Call a Constitutional Convention, add a couple of amendments that undo the damage of a few of our more egregious Supreme Court power grabs, strike out the 16th Amendment, and we're on our way.

[57Brave]

Is that true? I think California and Alabama would be happy to tell each other to mind their own affairs. The issue is more that the federal government won't let them do that and comes in with their own decree instead, so it becomes all or nothing.

I dont think California give a rats ass what Alabama thinks

[striker42]

Is that true? I think California and Alabama would be happy to tell each other to mind their own affairs. The issue is more that the federal government won't let them do that and comes in with their own decree instead, so it becomes all or nothing.

I think there may have been a time where people in California and Alabama would be happy letting the other do their thing but not anymore. As the federal government has grown in power over the years, it became more and more of an attractive club you could use to force others to behave the way you think is right.

We saw this all play out with gay marriage. You had DOMA then you had the SCOTUS cases. It was all people trying to utilize the federal government's power to institute what they think to be correct across the country.

[striker42]

I dont think California give a rats ass what Alabama thinks

They absolutely care what Alabama does. Anytime there's an abortion case where a state like Alabama has passed a restrictive law, do people in California not care?

[chop2chip]

I dont think California give a rats ass what Alabama thinks

Wasn't there a huge movement to boycott Georgia films because of their abortion laws? North Carolina all star games because of gender bathrooms?

Social justice movements aren't confined to ones own communities. I also don't think they would be limited to one's own country if blue states and red states separated. The USSR would demand the Confederate States of Republicans to be more inclusive.

[nsacpi]

As much as I love the idea of splitting into the United Socialist States of America and the Not Crazy States of America, I don't think it's practical. Where do swing states go? Can they switch back and forth every year? If not, we're back to where we are now. What about transportation, is it cool to send big rigs full of dope across all of those red states from Seattle to Chicago?

Striker's idea of *actually following the Constitution* is much better. Each state can make changes without resentment toward others. Call a Constitutional Convention, add a couple of amendments that undo the damage of a few of our more egregious Supreme Court power grabs, strike out the 16th Amendment, and we're on our way.

solid practical questions...maybe give states a chance to change their mind after ten years as to which federation they join

i've anticipated the dope question...eventually the blue states will federate with canada to become geographically contiguous (except for georgia about which i worry a lot)...until then we might need a dope shipping corridor...we'll pay for it by offering red states some vaccines

[nsacpi]

I dont think California give a rats ass what Alabama thinks

southern california doesn't even give a rat's ass what northern california thinks

[Jaw]

Wasn't there a huge movement to boycott Georgia films because of their abortion laws? North Carolina all star games because of gender bathrooms?

Social justice movements aren't confined to ones own communities. I also don't think they would be limited to one's own country if blue states and red states separated. The USSR would demand the Confederate States of Republicans to be more inclusive.

Yeah you disproved my point with this. Sovereign states is definitely the way to go.

[nsacpi]

Yeah you disproved my point with this. Sovereign states is definitely the way to go.

seriously...isn't it the efforts by coastal elites to enforce their norms (on things like abortion, LGBTQIA+, etc) that have brought us to where we are...i'm not unsympathetic to the resentment it has created...and in turn the backlash is creating problems for people in blue states...so an amicable separation makes a lot of sense...we can continue to do things we have in common together and go our separate ways on the things that divide us

[Jaw]

seriously...isn't it the efforts by coastal elites to enforce their norms (on things like abortion, LGBTQIA+, etc) that have brought us to where we are...i'm not unsympathetic to the resentment it has created...and in turn the backlash is creating problems for people in blue states...so an amicable separation makes a lot of sense...we can continue to do things we have in common together and go our separate ways on the things that divide us

It's a combination. Blue coastal states forcing their values on everyone is huge. I'm guilty of wanting some of mine to be nationwide as well. Then you get the feds doing things like overturning a statewide vote to ban gay marriage in the most gay friendly state in the union.

My opinion is that the amount of governing power should increase as the geographical area decreases. The founders basically did that. The population of states back then was often less than our counties now. Their mistake was trusting a branch of the federal government (that's selected by the federal government!?!) to restrain the federal government. In hindsight that was a huge and easily foreseen flaw.

[nsacpi]

It's a combination. Blue coastal states forcing their values on everyone is huge. I'm guilty of wanting some of mine to be nationwide as well. Then you get the feds doing things like overturning a statewide vote to ban gay marriage in the most gay friendly state in the union.

My opinion is that the amount of governing power should increase as the geographical area decreases. The founders basically did that. The population of states back then was often less than our counties now. Their mistake was trusting a branch of the federal government (that's selected by the federal government!?!) to restrain the federal government. In hindsight that was a huge and easily foreseen flaw.

As I said I have some understanding and sympathy for red state resentments. And some of it is tied to the judicial system deciding issues that should fundamentally be left to the political system.

There is a big however. Which is if you look back on our history, there are quite a few very important issues that were resolved very poorly or not at all through politics. And with the benefit of many years of hindsight, most of us are now ok with those issues having been resolved through war or imposition of federal power. I don't know if 100 years from now we'll feel the same way about today's hot issues. Hard to say.

[Jaw]

Regardless, if you'll form a party to decentralize the government to any extent I will gladly vote a straight ticket for you.

[cajunrevenge]

All kidding aside, if we can make it a 3 way split where libertarians get a land mass of around 2% of the current US (let’s say, I dunno, South Dakota for example), I’m in.

I vote we give Florida to the cult of Trump on the condition they build a wall on their border.

[chop2chip]

I vote we give Florida to the cult of Trump on the condition they build a wall on their border.

As long as Acuna gets to continue facing Marlins pitching.

[Krgrecw]

So you guys trash the southern states but want to add Puerto Rico as a state for senate votes? Mississippi is the Taj Mahal compared to Puerto Rico

[Coredor]

The difficulty is it’s not just states it’s parts of states. Look at the difference between metro Atlanta and rural GA. It’s two different planets. Then you have parts of states. 30 years ago James Carville was talking about Pennsylvania when he referred to “the Alabama between Philadelphia and Pittsburgh.” We have a mess. However the real divide is on things like age and region even within states. GA is a swing state now but it’s also a base turnout state. There actually aren’t many people likely to flip.

[nsacpi]

The difficulty is it’s not just states it’s parts of states. Look at the difference between metro Atlanta and rural GA. It’s two different planets. Then you have parts of states. 30 years ago James Carville was talking about Pennsylvania when he referred to “the Alabama between Philadelphia and Pittsburgh.” We have a mess. However the real divide is on things like age and region even within states. GA is a swing state now but it’s also a base turnout state. There actually aren’t many people likely to flip.

It really is striking. Portland vs eastern Oregon. Seattle vs eastern Washington. Atlanta is just in the vanguard. There are a bunch of southern cities that have been moving in a progressive direction. I believe that was the root of the restroom war in North Carolina. Charlotte wanted to accommodate transgender folk and the state jumped in and said nyet.

[acesfull86]

Do the best you can to split up the map and then it’ll be up to people to self sort to finish the job

[chop2chip]

Do the best you can to split up the map and then it’ll be up to people to self sort to finish the job

People will move to where the best jobs are. This has always been the case and why demographics and politics change (think Texas/Georgia right now or Colorado last decade).

If you break up the states now based on political leanings, you will have to do it again in a few years after these pesky humans shuffle the board.

As you and many others have suggested, the best idea is to empower states and as people move into the states they will vote for the policies they want.

[nsacpi]

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/the-a...onomic-divide/