2024 Field

[57Brave]

are you vaccinated ?

[Krgrecw]

Well when you look at mid 19th century issues with an early 21st century paradigm then you clearly miss out on the realities of that time. It’s a common mistake leftists make.

Hes always been a loser. Anyone with brains will tell you about the causes of The New York draft riots.

[thethe]

Hes always been a loser. Anyone with brains will tell you about the causes of The New York draft riots.

Aside from slavery it’s a shame the south didn’t win. But considering that would have meant slavery would have lasted longer I’m glad the north won.

[thethe]

Got to say though. I’ve enjoyed reading the last few pages here.

Makes me remember 11th grade AP history.

Been a while

[thethe]

Leadership

Give me any amount of MTGs over Kevin Mcarthys any day.

You may hate her personally but she will actually fight for you the voter and not bow to anyone with a pocketbook.

[zbhargrove]

Leadership

Give me any amount of MTGs over Kevin Mcarthys any day.

You may hate her personally but she will actually fight for you the voter and not bow to anyone with a pocketbook.

MTG has never shown an ounce of leadership in her life

[Jaw]

Aside from slavery it’s a shame the south didn’t win. But considering that would have meant slavery would have lasted longer I’m glad the north won.

Yep. I wish there had been some way of compromising a truce instead, where the South...er actually the South and the North... stopped the practice of slavery and the North stopped the practice of empowering the federal government for the sake of screwing over the South.

The expansion of the federal government's powers that resulted from the war did far more to screw the southern states than just doing the right thing on slavery would have.

[Jaw]

Got to say though. I’ve enjoyed reading the last few pages here.

Makes me remember 11th grade AP history.

Been a while

Makes you wonder how much of that is still taught in History class, doesn't it?

[57Brave]

If only the North hadn't 't been so mean to the slave holders
Gimme a break

[Jaw]

Once again, you either completely miss the point or intentionally misrepresent it. I'm honestly not sure which one it is.

[57Brave]

Yeah, I miss the point.

The Civil War was over an obscure tariff in the 1830's.

That Wikipedia reminded me was later rescinded.

And the northerners were mean to the slave holders

[57Brave]

Your justification of Confederacy rings equal to the logic of Saudi suicide bombers were justified killing 3000+ because American women drove cars and wouldn't cover their heads

[57Brave]

Except in the Saudi's version they invoked a god.

[zitothebrave]

Yep. I wish there had been some way of compromising a truce instead, where the South...er actually the South and the North... stopped the practice of slavery and the North stopped the practice of empowering the federal government for the sake of screwing over the South.

The expansion of the federal government's powers that resulted from the war did far more to screw the southern states than just doing the right thing on slavery would have.

I mean you really haven't done that much basic research?

We know in hindsight that slavery owuld have ended anyway because of the industrial revolution but that wasn't on anyone's minds in 1860.

https://www.battlefields.org/learn/p...eceding-states

Georgia

"For the last ten years we have had numerous and serious causes of complaint against our non-slave-holding confederate States with reference to the subject of African slavery. They have endeavored to weaken our security, to disturb our domestic peace and tranquility, and persistently refused to comply with their express constitutional obligations to us in reference to that property, and by the use of their power in the Federal Government have striven to deprive us of an equal enjoyment of the common Territories of the Republic."

Mississippi

"Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery-- the greatest material interest of the world. Its labor supplies the product which constitutes by far the largest and most important portions of commerce of the earth. "

South Carolina

"The slaveholding States will no longer have the power of self-government, or self-protection, and the Federal Government will have become their enemy."

Texas

"She was received as a commonwealth holding, maintaining and protecting the institution known as negro slavery-- the servitude of the African to the white race within her limits-- a relation that had existed from the first settlement of her wilderness by the white race, and which her people intended should exist in all future time. "

I mean it's pretty clear that the south seceded because they wanted to continue slavery. It almost collapsed late 18th century until the Cotton GIn. Should have been a clue as to the direction things were going, but the Southern States lacked vision.

[Jaw]

I mean you really haven't done that much basic research?

We know in hindsight that slavery owuld have ended anyway because of the industrial revolution but that wasn't on anyone's minds in 1860.

https://www.battlefields.org/learn/p...eceding-states

Georgia

"For the last ten years we have had numerous and serious causes of complaint against our non-slave-holding confederate States with reference to the subject of African slavery. They have endeavored to weaken our security, to disturb our domestic peace and tranquility, and persistently refused to comply with their express constitutional obligations to us in reference to that property, and by the use of their power in the Federal Government have striven to deprive us of an equal enjoyment of the common Territories of the Republic."

Mississippi

"Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery-- the greatest material interest of the world. Its labor supplies the product which constitutes by far the largest and most important portions of commerce of the earth. "

South Carolina

"The slaveholding States will no longer have the power of self-government, or self-protection, and the Federal Government will have become their enemy."

Texas

"She was received as a commonwealth holding, maintaining and protecting the institution known as negro slavery-- the servitude of the African to the white race within her limits-- a relation that had existed from the first settlement of her wilderness by the white race, and which her people intended should exist in all future time. "

I mean it's pretty clear that the south seceded because they wanted to continue slavery. It almost collapsed late 18th century until the Cotton GIn. Should have been a clue as to the direction things were going, but the Southern States lacked vision.

Yeah, I mean there's no doubt as to why the rich plantation owners who ran the states went to war. The conversation started about the many, many, many more southerners who took the side of the Confederacy despite not benefiting from slavery.

[zitothebrave]

Yeah, I mean there's no doubt as to why the rich plantation owners who ran the states went to war. The conversation started about the many, many, many more southerners who took the side of the Confederacy despite not benefiting from slavery.

Well the reality is that they were sold a story. As the rich often do. They were sold the idea that the Government was going to take everything from them. When in reality the average Southerner would have been much better not fighting.

I mean the reality is the line from War Pigs is very very true.

"Politicians hide themselves away
They only started the war
Why should they go out to fight?
They leave that role to the poor, yeah"

[mqt]

Aside from slavery it’s a shame the south didn’t win. But considering that would have meant slavery would have lasted longer I’m glad the north won.

That’s a pretty ****ing big qualifier, sir.

[mqt]

Well when you look at mid 19th century issues with an early 21st century paradigm then you clearly miss out on the realities of that time. It’s a common mistake leftists make.

It is true that we too often make the mistake of projecting our current understanding of the world too broadly on the individuals of the past and it can be unfair. However, I agree with Goldfly that it is a very common refrain to excuse the South for its views on slavery while simultaneously vilifying the North for its racism. Many try to “both sides” the civil war by pointing out Northern hypocrisy, when there was ultimately a damn-near objective right and wrong side in this particular conflict, even if the intentions of the North weren’t as pure as some might want to argue.

[cajunrevenge]

Most people arent capable of the self reflection to overcome their biases and what has been indoctrinated to them. These people in the past were raised to believe this stuff was okay. It was the socially dominate opinion of the time. Having the opposite opinion could get people lynched. Most people who want to say they are bad people for this stuff would have been the same as them if raised in the same environment.

[nsacpi]

Most people arent capable of the self reflection to overcome their biases and what has been indoctrinated to them. These people in the past were raised to believe this stuff was okay. It was the socially dominate opinion of the time. Having the opposite opinion could get people lynched. Most people who want to say they are bad people for this stuff would have been the same as them if raised in the same environment.

That's why I think the 100,000 white southerners who fought for the Union were amazing people. They rose above the prejudices of their times and extremely strong social pressures and did the right thing.